CO2 as the primary contributor to climate changes debunked thru hostorical data

[Mick]

Sorry Woody, your science is all backwards, and it's apparent people can't much headway explaining this you.

Good luck on your quest for knowledge though.

[Woody]

The "physics of heat" must necessarily be included in any discussion as complex as the "heating of the planet".



Incorrect. Heat is the name for the energy that's transferred from one body to another through collisional or radiative interactions in the random motions of their atoms/molecules. Temperature is the measurement of the average energy of the atoms/molecules comprising the specific substance being measured.



It's called thermal expansion and if you understood the hydrological cycle you'd realize that in a semi-permeable/semi-closed system such as Earths biosphere, there's a balance between thermal expansion, evaporation, precipitation/runoff, glaciation and ice melt/sublimation that determines whether ocean levels rise or fall.

Your example of a hot air balloon rising is an example of buoyancy. Some of the heat energy in the balloon is also dissipated equally in all directions into the surrounding air via conduction and radiation so the transport of thermal energy isn't exclusively up, even in a hot air balloon.

And you should know that I'm skeptical of the claims over catastrophic global warming climate change extreme weather caused by human activity myself because I think there's sufficient evidence that suggests the contribution by human emissions and land use changes to the Earth's energy budget are negligible and dwarfed by natural forcings, primarily the sun.

I guess, when it comes to heat, if you really think about it, Do you thnk it is warmer on the top of the mountain than the valley? (gas) Do you really think that the water actually gets warmer the deeper you go? (Liquid) or do you think that the center of the earth is cooler than the the crust of the earth? (solid) Thus heat rises. And, because we are bing so technical, heat is energy, the energy is from molecular movement. So technically, hot air does not rise, nor does anything EXCEPT the molecules. So, lets move on and stop trying to inflate our egos and get back to the subject.

I agree with you on the Sun, EXACTLY! Now, think about this, if we altered the planet in such a way that it reacted differently. Increased thermal absorption. But it's best to think about it when it is hot and sunny, maybe 100 degrees in your swimsuit with no sun block and choose between standing in the open sun or under the shade of a tree, you can easily observe the effects here. Now if you are still unsure, then stay in the sun all day and observe the results in morning and you will be able to feel what I mean. Last summer I passed a herd of cows standing under one lone tree and thought, they understand, perhaps its in peoples nature to just argue.

[Woody]

Sorry Woody, your science is all backwards, and it's apparent people can't much headway explaining this you.

Good luck on your quest for knowledge though.

Just because you don't understand doesn't make me wrong. Go to any heating and cooling outfit and try to expain to them how the concept "Heat rises" is in some way wrong, they will get a good laugh as I have, I know my dad does.

[Woody]

The "physics of heat" must necessarily be included in any discussion as complex as the "heating of the planet".



Incorrect. Heat is the name for the energy that's transferred from one body to another through collisional or radiative interactions in the random motions of their atoms/molecules. Temperature is the measurement of the average energy of the atoms/molecules comprising the specific substance being measured.



It's called thermal expansion and if you understood the hydrological cycle you'd realize that in a semi-permeable/semi-closed system such as Earths biosphere, there's a balance between thermal expansion, evaporation, precipitation/runoff, glaciation and ice melt/sublimation that determines whether ocean levels rise or fall.

Your example of a hot air balloon rising is an example of buoyancy. Some of the heat energy in the balloon is also dissipated equally in all directions into the surrounding air via conduction and radiation so the transport of thermal energy isn't exclusively up, even in a hot air balloon.

And you should know that I'm skeptical of the claims over catastrophic global warming climate change extreme weather caused by human activity myself because I think there's sufficient evidence that suggests the contribution by human emissions and land use changes to the Earth's energy budget are negligible and dwarfed by natural forcings, primarily the sun.

By the way, water is the ONLY eliment known in this world that expands when it cools and contracts when it heats. The rise is very small, and when it cools at night it then lowers due to the evaporation that took place. Many people do not realize this and auomatically think that itfollos the same laws of expansion and contraction. Now in sealed system you are correct, it will expand which means a rise in pressure. Ground water is what I am speaking of in the snse of the how the planet uses it for heating and cooling.

I understand the glaciers, precip and so on, I have another chapter on this part of the cycles, but something to think about and NO one speaks about is this, and you can say you heard it here first because there is no claim to this yet. Ocean Levels will rise and the science community will be baffled because the rise will be faster than calculations allow. At our current rate, the Mid Atlantic Ridge, the earths over flow tube, will expell massive amountsof ave under the oceans due to the heat at an alarming rate. The rise will come not from the glaciers or heat applied, but the heat below and this will result in massive water displacemnet. Like filling a glass of water with rocks, it can overflow quickly, far faster than heat or ice melt runoff.

[Woody]

I researched and found that many of the statemets in this thread come from cut and pasting from sites and not listing them or stating this and passing them off as their own words. Shame on those of you doing this.

By doing this it also demonstrates both the deceptiion AND the lack of knowledge in these areas. This explains many things here, NOTHNG I have stated comes from a cut and paste without a referance, and others should do the same. ALL graphs were created and reearchd by ME! It demonstarates peoples hearts to engage in conflict rather than seeking knowldge. It is distubing that people would do this. This make a person both a lier and a thief....and niether should ever be trusted. Those of you who have done this, you know who you are, and now I do too.

[Mick]

I researched and found that many of the statemets in this thread come from cut and pasting from sites and not listing them or stating this and passing them off as their own words. Shame on those of you doing this.

By doing this it also demonstrates both the deceptiion AND the lack of knowledge in these areas. This explains many things here, NOTHNG I have stated comes from a cut and paste without a referance, and others should do the same. ALL graphs were created and reearchd by ME! It demonstarates peoples hearts to engage in conflict rather than seeking knowldge. It is distubing that people would do this. This make a person both a lier and a thief....and niether should ever be trusted. Those of you who have done this, you know who you are, and now I do too.

Woody you seem determined to stir up some kind of adversarial relationship here. People have been more than kind with you. You are obviously bright and practical minded, but your just missing some key aspects of the science, and you unfortunately seem unwilling to accept that this might be the case.

Come back in one month.

[Mick]

I've given Woody a one month time-out ban to settle down.

[solrey]

I guess, when it comes to heat, if you really think about it, Do you thnk it is warmer on the top of the mountain than the valley?

I'm intimately familiar with the fact that temperature decreases with altitude, AKA the lapse rate, which is due to expansion from a decrease in pressure. Green house gases work, not because "heat rises" as you put it, but because greenhouse gases are mostly transparent to radiation from the shorter wavelength infrared on up into UV, but are opaque, meaning they absorb, radiation in the long wavelength IR band which is what the surface of the Earth radiates. The lower atmosphere is warmed from the bottom by conduction from the surface, but the atmosphere is a very poor conductor of heat so when the air rises due to convection/buoyancy the temperature decreases due to expansion at lower pressure. A certain amount of the long wave IR radiative energy passes right through the atmosphere into space and a certain amount is absorbed by gases like CO2, H2O, or CH4 and they in turn re-radiate slightly phase shifted long wave IR back out again in all directions. Water vapor also carries latent heat with it and radiates that energy in the form of IR when it cools and condenses into liquid droplets. To try and simplify it down to a matter of "heat rises" just shows a total lack of grasping the science.

Water is NOT the only substance that expands when it freezes. The others are silicon, gallium, germanium, antimony, bismuth, plutonium and also chemical compounds that form spacious crystal lattices. (That's about the only thing I've copy/pasted or had to even look up actually so if it seems that anything else I've written is copy pasted it's because I know WTF I'm talking about and am just describing standard physics as I know it. I mean I didn't diligently study this shit and keep up with it just to forget it all of a sudden.) Liquid water expands and contracts quite significantly so, all else being equal, sea level rise due to thermal expansion alone is perfectly valid scientifically. As pressure increases ice also contracts to be denser than the liquid phase at the same pressure due to "packing" of the hexagonal crystals.

I mean accusing people of having to copy/paste basic well known scientific facts and concepts while demonstrating a thorough lack of knowledge yourself and arrogantly talking down to us with some over simplistic bullshit as if we're little children is beyond insulting.

Have a nice life.