What? Regulation?? Right there in the Constitution?? Thats sounds like socialismOriginally Posted by solrey
What? Regulation?? Right there in the Constitution?? Thats sounds like socialism
Stil wondering in what way I am not free.
I have no problem with the current interpretation of the 2nd Amendment - it went to the SC and got decided through better anaylysis than on here that it did refer to the right of individuals to bear arms, and NOT just to have a militia - I have read some of the courts reasoning and it makes sense to me.
And if the US wants to keep or amend or retract the 2nd amendment (after all it is an "amendment" - the constitution allows for all those things to be done) then that is their business.
but I am glad that New Zealand is not bound by 18th century thinking on this matter and we can change things to suit the changing world relatively easily.
so - back to the issue that sparked it all - how am I not free?
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Obviously you and I come at things very differently, M, and this isn't a dig at all (honest!), just that yours was the last post in the thread. I just read all of it, because I saw a few comments passing through on the main page.
I think there's plenty of ways we're 'not free', M. We're all slaves to the system one way or t'other, pretty much - it's hard not to be. What really interests me in all this, apart from the historically incorrect view of TCSW around the WW11 Hollywood false meme re: US saves the day, you'd all have blonde hair and jackboots stuff....isn't that a great endorsement on the hatchet job Hollywood has done to a fair few Americans? Anyway, I digress - what's interesting is the insight into a person I imagine considers themself a 'libertarian constitutionalist', meaning less rules and govt etc - please tell if that's not right - there's a lot of facets to this, but not least this unqualified hatred of the very idea of socialism or communism - to the point of avoiding it like one might a contagious mental illness, if there was such a thing. Let me tell you, TCSW, for starters (there's a lot more): We The People.... Marx would most certainly have approved. Have you actually read Marx himself, or just what someone else said about Marx?
Lee, seems you have some thoughts about socialism, etc. seems most of us conditioned by the US education system have an immediate catatonic reaction to such musings . . . my only reaction is communism cannot properly exist because humans are not perfect and are not genuinely altruistic . . . a capitalistic economic system coupled with a republic is a more rational system because people are basically flawed and progress better when they can be motivated by personal self interest like greed. . . I however detest corporatism . . . which is what I think is closer to what we are presently living under . . .
Last edited by George B; January 30th, 2013 at 03:03 PM.
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Joe (January 30th, 2013)
That's because they brainwashed you!
I am aware of the control and conditioning issue but that is a conspiracy of a different color . . . Lol!!!
You must remember I spent many years of my life protecting a free market economy from the Red Menace throughout the Cold War . . .
Last edited by George B; January 30th, 2013 at 04:25 PM.
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
http://sofrep.com/16644/1000-green-b...2nd-amendment/ The following letter was disseminated and signed by over 1,000 current and former Army Special Forces soldiers (Green Berets) in support of the Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms, specifically as a defensive measure against tyranny. The letter was compiled through the joint efforts of current and former Special Forces personnel over at www.ProfessionalSoldiers.com, and quietly disseminated for signatures among secure, vetted circles.
Read more: http://sofrep.com/16644/1000-green-b...#ixzz2JcKIEC00
Last edited by Joe; January 30th, 2013 at 07:05 PM.
18th century thinking ? Your so much smarter then they were ? You might as well then murder and steal because thats part of the 10 commandments and god knows thats ancient history so it must not aplly in your little progressive mind ? Your not free if you cant defend yourself . But from what I learned you can own a gun in New Zealand maybe no as easy as in the US but still possible . But you can lose that right a lot easier then in the US so you are only as free as your masters will let you . Our 2nd admendmant is a lot harder to change . As long as we have the NRA we have a chance . If America collapses the rest of the world will follow including New Zealand .
I don't understand about when you say the US will collapse? Collapse against what exactly?
Ah, now I can see where your comments are coming from. Let me guess your political affiliation - you're a Republican.
New Zealand is not controlled by "masters." They have a functioning government - likely not nearly as corrupt as ours - and it is supported quite well by the citizens as far as I can tell (I'd need to find NZ polling data, as I'm going off talking to people around the country - Mike, any good polling data on this?).
I agree that if the U.S. falls, at least economically the world will struggle a lot. Military wise? I'm not so sure, as we're speculating about things happening in the future that not many people have given serious thought to.
The one character aspect I am most proud of is being able to recognize that something can be a total load of crap.
That was when it was written was it not - so in what way is it not 18th century thinking?
If the USA collapses we will miss getting the cheap TV's and cars from Japan that our exports to the USA pay for....but we can feed and clothe ourselves, so we won't be collapsing even if we no longer get to see Big Bang Theory.
Plane the 2011 election is on Wikipedia - the 4 parties that formed the coalition government after the election got just a smidgen over 50% of the vote (made up of 1 party with 47% (go figure!) and 3 with 0.6-1.3% each), and turnout was about 70% (2.2 million out of 3.05 million)
Last edited by MikeC; January 30th, 2013 at 08:11 PM.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Sorry - double
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
No Libertarian . X republican .
Whats the difference when it was written ? Tyranny is Tyranny . Maybe you country is not as corrupt and you trust your government but not in America . Hell most of the world dislikes the American government .
Henson Ong at Gun Violence Prevention Public Hearing - Hartford, CT - 1/28/2013
So why did you ask the question?
Except when it is not - I see you as being under the tyranny of a document written 200-ish years agoTyranny is Tyranny
that is unable to change to match the modern world.
For example when we decided we didn't like our electoral system we changed it - it took a couple of years and a referendum or 2, but it was a lot easier than trying to change your constitution seems to be. And now if we don't like what we ended up with we get the opportunity to review it and have our say on that issue.
There is no country that does not have corruption at some level - and to be honest I do trust the US Govt more or less - a lot more than I trust your single issue lobby grounps and conspiracy "industry"!Maybe you country is not as corrupt and you trust your government but not in America . Hell most of the world dislikes the American government .
Last edited by MikeC; January 31st, 2013 at 01:15 PM.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Cairenn (February 2nd, 2013)
just for some light relief - US investment giant says buy NZ land
"I am sure it's a bit tongue in cheek. But his point may more be along the lines of at least you will have a lovely farm in a beautiful country. You can grow your own food and you can still live comfortably.''
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Seeing that New Zealands total Population is half of Los Angeles county . I see their are no comparing the two . Did you happen to watch the video above ? We live in two different worlds .just for some light relief - US investment giant says buy NZ land
"I am sure it's a bit tongue in cheek. But his point may more be along the lines of at least you will have a lovely farm in a beautiful country. You can grow your own food and you can still live comfortably.''
Sure they did they know whats coming soon to America economic Collapse , riots ect . PIMCO'S Gross sees U.S. economy on road to extinction http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...90U0VD20130131just for some light relief - US investment giant says buy NZ land
"I am sure it's a bit tongue in cheek. But his point may more be along the lines of at least you will have a lovely farm in a beautiful country. You can grow your own food and you can still live comfortably.''
No comparing the 2 what? The article is not a comparison of anything - did you bother to read it??
Yes we live in 2 different worlds - in mine I do not have the "right" to own a firearm, and the murder rate here is 0.9 per 100,000 people per annum.
In LA county the residents do have the "right" to own firearms, and the murder rate is about 6.28 per 100,000 people.
Just 2 of the many differences between our worlds.
So why am I not "free"?
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
If you live in LA youd be a fool not to own a gun . If you dont have a right to defend yourself from violent crime you are NOT FREE . You are a victim . Being that New Zealand ranks second for crime next to the Australia and 3rd being the UK . http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...-total-victims 3 countries with gun control .
I live in LA. I don't own a gun. People get shot round here, but a lot more get hit by cars.
My sister, brother-in-law and their children live in LA and don't own guns.
If you dont have a right to defend yourself from violent crime you are NOT FREE . You are a victim
I do have the right to defend myself from violent crime. I can even do so with a gun if I own one.
Crime reporting is going up here - there are no more crimes actually being committed, but many people are, for example, reporting "historical" sex abuse - as it says in the defintion:
DEFINITION: People victimized by crime (as a % of the total population). Data refer to people victimized by one or more of 11 crimes recorded in the survey: robbery, burglary, attempted burglary, car theft, car vandalism, bicycle theft, sexual assault, theft from car, theft of personal property, assault and threats. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.
In our society you are FREE to report any crime without fear of being attacked for doing so.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Rape In #1 New Zealand http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cr...e-rape-victims
Where you live isnt exactly the hood ? Im not saying anyone has to own a gun just that if they felt they needed one depending on where they live or work they should have that right .
Didnt say you had to own a gun . Just that if you live in a country where you cant own one you are not free . I lived in New York , LA and never owned a gun either . Iv only purchased 2 recently . Working late at night by myself I need to be able to defend myself and my property . Live thru a few hurricanes without power for weeks and you might understand . maybe ? Plus if the SHTF who knows ? When all criminals are purged from the United States Ill Be the First to rid my self of guns .My sister, brother-in-law and their children live in LA and don't own guns.
If you dont have a right to defend yourself from violent crime you are NOT FREE . You are a victim
I do have the right to defend myself from violent crime. I can even do so with a gun if I own one.
Crime reporting is going up here - there are no more crimes actually being committed, but many people are, for example, reporting "historical" sex abuse - as it says in the defintion:
DEFINITION: People victimized by crime (as a % of the total population). Data refer to people victimized by one or more of 11 crimes recorded in the survey: robbery, burglary, attempted burglary, car theft, car vandalism, bicycle theft, sexual assault, theft from car, theft of personal property, assault and threats. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.
In our society you are FREE to report any crime without fear of being attacked for doing so.
Actually it is the hood. I live right next to Oakwood, a part of Venice notorious for gangs. It's improved quite a bit over the past decade, but there's still plenty of bangers (and OGs) around here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venice_13
Venice 13 (V13) is a Mexican Americanstreet gang based in the Oakwood (aka "Ghost Town") neighborhood of Venice, a section of Los Angeles, California, with a substantial presence in East Venice as well as the Culver City/Los Angeles border, especially around Washington Blvd.The gang dates back to the 1950s, and has long been known as one of the most dangerous street gangs on the Los Angeles Westside. It was amongst the first Mexican gangs to fight gang wars against African-Americangangs, especially the local Venice Shoreline Crips which were founded in the mid-1970s. It is affiliated with the Sureņos and the Mexican Mafia.
2:29 looks like a chemtrail Or persistant Contrail ? dogtown ?
Thats why we moved from Hawthore out to Orange County . I'd arm myself but thats me
Last edited by Joe; February 1st, 2013 at 04:42 PM.
It is you. Some other people are different.I'd arm myself but thats me
Did you know that the NRA bullied congress to pass legislation forbidding the CDC from studying gun mortality?
Do you know why?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0930121512.htm
Sep. 30, 2009 — In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
Full study:
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi...PH.2008.143099
Yep - reported rape is up a lot since there have been public campaigns for the lat 10-15 years to destigmatise the victims, and training for police and courts on how to handle complaints, trials and evidence.
Also highlighting sexual abuse in families has been a major effort.
We don't hide it any more.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
If you are not allowed to buy a gun then you are not free to buy a gun.
Just like if you are in a country where you cannot legally kill someone then you are not free to kill someone.
I have no problem with gun ownership, nor with hte concept of people being in fear and thinking gun ownership might help them.Live thru a few hurricanes without power for weeks and you might understand . maybe ?
That is not the point.
The point is, how am I not free for not having the 2nd amendment or equivalent?
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
I am a proud Member of her NRA quite sceptical of the CDC . Philly ? Nasty place .Did you know that the NRA bullied congress to pass legislation forbidding the CDC from studying gun mortality?
Do you know why?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0930121512.htm
Sep. 30, 2009 — In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.
Full study:
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi...PH.2008.143099
Thye point is its pointless trying to convince you . If you think your free then in your mind you are .
You can always defend yourself with scissors as in the DHS VIDEO ?
Just as pointless as telling you you're dead wrong. Simply not having a document state that you have the right to bear arms does not make you free. The non-existence of a document saying "you have the right to bear arms" does not mean arms are not allowed.
You still have not given a valid reason as to why anyone who is a citizen of New Zealand is not free. That study of the freest nations on the planet must be missing something if, as you say, NZ is under tyranny. Honestly, I don't think you can even make such a statement with such confidence without even visiting the place.
The one character aspect I am most proud of is being able to recognize that something can be a total load of crap.
Like the study says, sometimes guns do work for self defense. But on average they do not, and on average people who carry guns get shot more than people who do not.
So really what you've got is a gun that makes you feel safer. But really it's not helping anything.
So because their was a study it makes it fact ? Everywhere ? Maybe in the academic world but not in the real world . You have your beliefs or studies Ill keep mine and my second admendment .
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