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Thread: RFID implants, the Bible, and World Domination

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    Member Jaysen's Avatar
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    RFID implants, the Bible, and World Domination

    [Admin: Thread split from http://metabunk.org/threads/497-Debu...plant-Law-Hoax ]

    Wow, what a fascinating thread! Pretty scary too..

    My question to you Mick is if this Obamacare RFID Chip Implant Law is a Hoax, then what is your take on Vice President Joe Biden and Howard Dean making comments about this tag/chip. If it were not true (implantable tracking devices on humans), then why are they talking about it like it will come to fruition?

    If you don't believe me then believe the men that made the comments (Biden, Dean). Here is the link to the video..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmG7c...455hhg&index=2

    View and then tell me if they were just joking or taken out of context. I need to know your take on this.

    Thanks!

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    Administrator Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    Wow, what a fascinating thread! Pretty scary too..

    My question to you Mick is if this Obamacare RFID Chip Implant Law is a Hoax, then what is your take on Vice President Joe Biden and Howard Dean making comments about this tag/chip. If it were not true (implantable tracking devices on humans), then why are they talking about it like it will come to fruition?

    If you don't believe me then believe the men that made the comments (Biden, Dean). Here is the link to the video..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmG7c...455hhg&index=2

    View and then tell me if they were just joking or taken out of context. I need to know your take on this.

    Thanks!
    Sounds like they were just talking about some kind of smart card with a chip in it. Nobody mentioned anything about implantable chips.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Sounds like they were just talking about some kind of smart card with a chip in it. Nobody mentioned anything about implantable chips.
    I understand you heard the woman voicing her complaint to Howard Dean about government infringement on our private lives with this chip. She was commenting on how France has a card with this RFID Chip..

    But what about the comments made by VP Joe Biden to Chief Justice Roberts about microscopic tags being implanted into a person's body? He did say "you will rule on that Mark my words before your tenure is over". Meaning he rule whether it's unconstitutional to be implanted with a tracking device.

    This is coming from the mouth of Joe Biden. He is pretty credible. I'm having trouble understanding how you could have overlooked that portion of the video.

    All i'm trying to do is show you that it's coming so you won't be surprised when it does.

    Also if you're familiar with Aaron Russo, he gave an interview regarding the plans of rich banksters (namely the Rockefellers) on how their plan is to have everyone chipped. He said everything will be connected to this chip. Sadly Aaron Russo is no longer with us.

    The truth is out there for those who care to know what's really going on in the world. I never believed in any of this stuff until recently.

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    I understand you heard the woman voicing her complaint to Howard Dean about government infringement on our private lives with this chip. She was commenting on how France has a card with this RFID Chip..

    But what about the comments made by VP Joe Biden to Chief Justice Roberts about microscopic tags being implanted into a person's body? He did say "you will rule on that Mark my words before your tenure is over". Meaning he rule whether it's unconstitutional to be implanted with a tracking device.

    This is coming from the mouth of Joe Biden. He is pretty credible. I'm having trouble understanding how you could have overlooked that portion of the video.
    that would be because it is completely irrelevant to the topic of this threa - for which see below......

    All i'm trying to do is show you that it's coming so you won't be surprised when it does.
    I dont' think anyone doubts "it" is coming.

    the thread is about pointing out that IT IS NOT HERE NOW - and that this particular piece of legislation has nothing to do with "it" anyway.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    @ MikeC

    It is coming but we all know it will not be accepted.

    I wonder what type of event will cause the population to accept such a thing? I ask everyone if they will accept being implanted with this chip/tag and they all say, "no way".

    We will have to wait and see. If we do implement such a thing, we will be the first country to implant it's citizens with monitoring devices. Could this be the Obamanation that causes desolation spoken of in the Bible? Idk.. I'm just ranting now lol

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Jaysen again - yes some will accept, some will not. But that is not the point of this thread.

    so - acknowledging going OT - personaly i have no problem at all with an ID chip - hopefully it will replace several pieces of plastic and metal in my wallet, passwords on my phone, etc. I think what will "cause the population to accept such a thing" is ease of use, improved security (in the sense you won't be able to lose it), and the increased flexibility and capabilities it will enable us to have.

    Most people couldn't give a rotund rodent's rectum about the "mark of the beast" - religious nutters ranting about it will probably just publicise it and make it moer acceptable to the non-religious masses.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    "The language is not vague on the subject of compulsory implants. There's nothing in there about compulsory implants, which is the point of this thread." < from Mick

    MikeC, in the video I posted on here it has Joe Biden talking about tags being implanted in a persons body. He goes on to say the Courts will have to rule whether that's constitutional or not. Why in the world would a court have to rule on something? It sounds like it will be compulsory in some way, shape or fashion, do you agree?

    We have to look deeper sometimes into whats going on. It's what investigators do. I'm sure you all would make great investigators because you all like to investigate and ask questions.

    All I'm saying is we can't ignore what Joe Biden said to Chief Justice Roberts about microscopic tags being implanted into a person's body.

    Congressman Ron Paul had this to say on the matter,

    “Buried deep within the over 1,000 pages of the massiveUSHealth Care Bill (PDF) in a “non-discussed” section titled: Subtitle C-11 Sec. 2521— National Medical Device Registry, and which states its purpose as…….. He quotes that part of the law and then goes on to say: “In “real world speak”, according to this report, this new law, when fully implemented, provides the framework for making the United States the first Nation in the World to require each and every one of its citizens to have implanted in them a radio-frequency identification microchip for the purpose of controlling who is, or isn’t, allowed medical care in their country”.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
    Jaysen again - yes some will accept, some will not. But that is not the point of this thread.

    so - acknowledging going OT - personaly i have no problem at all with an ID chip - hopefully it will replace several pieces of plastic and metal in my wallet, passwords on my phone, etc. I think what will "cause the population to accept such a thing" is ease of use, improved security (in the sense you won't be able to lose it), and the increased flexibility and capabilities it will enable us to have.

    Most people couldn't give a rotund rodent's rectum about the "mark of the beast" - religious nutters ranting about it will probably just publicise it and make it moer acceptable to the non-religious masses.
    Perhaps listening to Aaron Russo and what he had to say about it, after all he did have insider information on it's true motives from the Rockefeller, will make you change your tune.

    Bible prophecy does state there will come a leader/power who will cause all small, great rich and poor to accept a mark. And All those who don't have this mark will be unable to buy sell or trade.

    Aaron Russo never once spoke about Jesus, the Messiah, Christianity, or any other religion in this interview. Nothing to do with any faith or God or anything of that nature. He was merely tattle telling to the world what the plans of these rich elite people are. Listening to him sounded to me like some prophetic bible type of event because it is written in their something you said will happen in the future. Sighs, perhaps it's all just some big coincidence. It's funny because originally in the Hebrew language that word didn't exist. So to GOD (if you believe there does exist a higher power than you or me) there is no such thing.

    I'm sorry if I offended or insulted you in anyway shape or form. Surely not my intentions at all.

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    [COLOR=#333333
    MikeC, in the video I posted on here it has Joe Biden talking about tags being implanted in a persons body. He goes on to say the Courts will have to rule whether that's constitutional or not. Why in the world would a court have to rule on something? It sounds like it will be compulsory in some way, shape or fashion, do you agree?
    nope.

    Biden was talking to a SC judge, and saying that he thought the Judge will have to rule on chips at some time. you do not have to be a VPOTUSA to think that the SC might be asked to rule on chips eventually - that is just common sense.

    there are a number of aspects of chips that might be ruled on - conceivably some agency MIGHT try to make them compulsory. Equally conceivably the SC might be asked to rule on some organisation requiring them if you choose to make use of their services - and thus denying people access to their services who do not have them. Those are 2 easily imagined possibilities.

    [quote]All I'm saying is we can't ignore what Joe Biden said to Chief Justice Roberts about microscopic tags being implanted into a person's body.[/quoet]

    And nor do we need to make it into something more than it was - a prediction that chips are going to be part of the future.

    Congressman Ron Paul had this to say on the matter,

    [/COLOR]
    “Buried deep within the over 1,000 pages of the massiveUSHealth Care Bill (PDF) in a “non-discussed” section titled: Subtitle C-11 Sec. 2521— National Medical Device Registry, and which states its purpose as…….. He quotes that part of the law and then goes on to say: “In “real world speak”, according to this report, this new law, when fully implemented, provides the framework for making the United States the first Nation in the World to require each and every one of its citizens to have implanted in them a radio-frequency identification microchip for the purpose of controlling who is, or isn’t, allowed medical care in their country”.


    And yet despite saying that he could not actually identify what het wording is that is buried "deep" within the legislation - and stil can't.

    Because there is nothnig at all there about it - it provides no sort of "framework" for anything except keeping track of medical devices so they can be recalled if necessary. It is a total beat up.

    And nor do I particularly care what Russo has to say - again I will use chips if they are convenient and useful for me. If that happens to help some squillionaire stay disgustingly rich then it is no moer than every other system in the history of money has done.

    And as soon as yuo mention the bible I also mark you as a nut job. sorry - don't mean to offend, but I have no interest in your imaginary friends.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    @ MikeC

    Interesting. . .

    It just suck that it's leading to this. A society that has their citizens tracked and monitored for total control.

    I guess it would be nice having EVERYTHING connected to that chip. It's a whole lot easier to pay bills and have access to your money because your information would be right on you at all times. So will your whereabouts. No privacy. It's a police state. Whatever happens to this country though it still is the greatest country the world will ever know.

    A nut job? So I believe that I was created by a Supernatural being and that makes me insane? You may have been some random act of coincidence but not I sir. I was actually designed and endowed with certain inalienable rights by Our Creator.. It's funny Obama omitted the Our Creator part when giving a speach. He did say he will win the war on Christmas though so, I guess by saying Christmas he was slyly saying Christians.

    It'll be interesting to see if the chips get implanted or deemed constitutional under his watch. If it's mandatory then I will go to jail or wherever they decided to stick terrorist, non-compilers. The majority will be nut job Christians saying the chip is the Mark of the beast.

    Coincidentally, Joe Biden did say to the SCJ - "MARK MY WORDS - ... sighs, Why say the word "MARK" for??? We'll see soon..

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    But tracking does not control me.

    your definition of "nut job" may include insane, mine is just people who believe nutty things. In your case apparently believing the bible literally when it suits you is something I definitely include as nutty - but that's common and not sufficient on its own unless it is extreme.

    The kicker for me is that you buy into all this stuff that people say that is nothing more than speculation and supposition, but do not believe anything that counters your pre-formed conclusion even when that has a wealth of factual data supporting it.

    and I think he said "Mark my words....." because it is a common phrase that people use when they mean - "remember that I predicted this" or similar.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    @ MikeC

    Lol, Ah that's pretty funny..

    Does that mean Megan Fox is nutty? I know it's straying from the topic of the thread but had to ask lol.. The reason I ask is I JUST FOUND OUT that she's been speaking in tongues since the age of 8 and has read the book of revelation countless times (among other things). She does have literal proof that the existence of the Judeo-Christian GOD is real and true. She does speak in tongues after all and says it feels like electricity running through your body.

    I don't believe she would lie about this.

    DID YOU KNOW ABOUT HOLLYWOOD BOMBSHELL MEGAN FOX’S SURPRISING FAITH BACKGROUND? TONGUES, END TIMES, AND THE ANTICHRIST

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013...th-background/

    For the record, if this country implements this chip/tag it would increase the likelihood that Barack Hussein Obama is the Antichrist prophesied in the Bible. It's no coincidence that Newsweek portrays him as a sort of GOD/Savior/Messiah. Funny thing to that Newsweek did a merger with the Daily Beast. The Antichrist of the Bible is referred to as the beast as well.

    Coincidences, coincidences.. we all know too, that his limo and bus are also called "the beast". It seems some people, maybe knowingly or unknowingly are fulfilling bible prophecy. But of course, that's way too out of this world to believe. I used not believe in anything either. I thought also they were a bunch of garbage, nut job, deserving of death type people.. That was until I experienced things and saw things.

    I just found out also that they have a variant of the chip which can kill you if you disobey. It is a Great way to make people obey you. Kudos to the inventors. In this video the news panel people on CNBC joke (because one of the guys has one), if this is some NWO conspiracy plot to take over the world. Funny too I find out the POPE wants a new global monetary policy for a 1 world government with Obama ushering all of this.. WHOA! lol The things found on youtube lol my oh my..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yl2LMmwteCA
    Last edited by Jaysen; January 28th, 2013 at 12:39 PM. Reason: adding

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Yep - even hollywood bombshells can be nuts - and not bombshells too - thinhk about Scientologists and "Traditional Catholics" for example. It is of course a graduated thing - the more nutty and extreme the belief, the nuttier the nut job.

    FWIW I spoke in tongues a few times......3 or 4 decades ago!!
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
    Yep - even hollywood bombshells can be nuts - and not bombshells too - thinhk about Scientologists and "Traditional Catholics" for example. It is of course a graduated thing - the more nutty and extreme the belief, the nuttier the nut job.

    FWIW I spoke in tongues a few times......3 or 4 decades ago!!
    Wow lol.. Why would our government allow the biggest nut job of them all to perform at Obama's Inaugural Ball???

    This person has won multiple awards for tv, movie and music projects (check out on wikipedia). He also believes Barack Obama is our Lord and Savior!

    If you don't know who I'm talking about, his name is Jamie Foxx. I guess our whole government is f***** up.

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    Wow lol.. Why would our government allow the biggest nut job of them all to perform at Obama's Inaugural Ball???

    This person has won multiple awards for tv, movie and music projects (check out on wikipedia). He also believes Barack Obama is our Lord and Savior!

    If you don't know who I'm talking about, his name is Jamie Foxx. I guess our whole government is f***** up.

    alternatively his comments were metaphorical, and actually a sly dig at Obama, and yuo need to lighten up some......
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
    alternatively his comments were metaphorical, and actually a sly dig at Obama, and yuo need to lighten up some......
    All I know is I'm living in a country with Obama at the head, and a world that plans to have it's inhabitants tracked and monitored with a chip so that they can have total control (it's straight out of the BIBLE lol).. For what??? Don't they have it all (like money)??? I'm not mad at all. I'm just saying these rich demonic people want our souls too. Only reason I have, for them to want to have total control over our lives. I know most people on here only follow mainstream media but if you start digging a little deeper to see how deep the rabbit hole goes, you might learn something you didn't know before.

    It's so funny how no one sees what's going on around them or don't care. Our country is gradually changing and will soon become a socialistic police state. Our citizens don't care because it's gradual and easy to adapt to. I'm fine as long as they don't say to me, "son, we are going to have to insert this chip, or else.." We already have a penalty tax or jail time or whatever for not having health care, and they're slowly pushing for a gun ban starting with fully automatic big clip type weapons.. What's next? It's all downhill from here in terms of privacy and rights.

    America is changing on us.. yet no one gives a hoot. Whoever does care gets labeled a conspiracy theorist a retard or what not. You know what's really really funny.. OBAMANATION gave a speech and he went a little something like this.. "let me just say something to all of my conspiracy oriented friends on the right who think I'm planning to unleash some secret agenda for my second term, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT"! For real Obama? You gon play wit us like that?

    And then now they're calling him "Lord of the Flies" Like What in the world is that lol??? Beezlebub/Satan?? It's all over the internet.. I was watching sportcenter the other day and they're even poking fun at the president because of this! All the Christian prophecy websites are running with this connecting him with "The King who will do as he pleases and prosper until the time of the end".

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    All I know is I'm living in a country with Obama at the head, and a world that plans to have it's inhabitants tracked and monitored with a chip
    Can you identify such a "world plan"?


    so that they can have total control
    And how it would establish such total control?

    (it's straight out of the BIBLE lol)
    There is nothing in the bible about chips - it says a mark on hte hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18) - a chip will not require a mark, and if one is created by "inserting" it such a mark will almost certainly be possible to remove surgically without affecting the ability of hte chip to be used.

    So comparing it to the bible is BS.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
    Can you identify such a "world plan"?

    The world plan is the NWO... find out about it and then you will see. I'm telling you man it's crazy and perhaps you know all about, you seem like bright person. Some of our leaders and high prominent people have said it's what we need, and after 9/11 it's become easier (to usher in a NWO) because you have this war on terror where you can keep waging war and say, "we're just taking out the terrorists". Thank goodness we have a man of peace (who will save us lol) who through war will bring us the peace we need. After all, Obama was given a Nobel Peace Prize for things he will do in the future (sounds like something out the bible if you follow eschatology and the deep things in the bible).


    And how it would establish such total control?

    Once you are "chipped in" and they get up and running to where they want it, it will be linked to your bank account, your medical history.. everything about you will be in those chips. With nanotechnology it wouldn't be hard to do. In the future it will be required so that you can hold a job and pay bills. Your money will be on that chip. If you owe taxes, they'll just take it out the chip. Complete control. If you disobey, they'll turn off the chip, preventing you from buying or selling. Reading on the lethal chips, I imagine if you commit a crime bad enough, you die.

    There is nothing in the bible about chips - it says a mark on hte hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16-18) - a chip will not require a mark, and if one is created by "inserting" it such a mark will almost certainly be possible to remove surgically without affecting the ability of hte chip to be used.

    So comparing it to the bible is BS.
    I understand. The people who wrote the Bible wrote it so long ago, some of the things are "metaphorical". How can you describe something if you have never seen it? From my understanding, the surgical procedure would possible leave a slight scar (or mark) wherever it gets placed (i've seen the procedure). Once you accept such a thing, you belong (literally) to this "beast type government". It's sad we will be the first power (USA) from the looks of things, to usher in this New Way Of life. It's BS man, utter BS. A Cashless society isn't bad but d*** the way they're are doing it sounds like something that'll send me to hell If I accept it lol. That's if you believe in the Judeo-Christian God. You know the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

    Ima be honest and I'll say it here.. First I'd like to say I never believed in what I am about to say.. Never, ever, ever believed in this but.. I saw a UFO one time right around my neighborhood and it was very, very low (12 feet high at the most and it was the same UFO described by 2008 presidential candidate Joe Kucinich). I believe it's secret government technology kept hidden for some sinister plan. Perhaps it will be used to make people question their faith in whatever they believe in to get them to stray away from from their faith. Who knows? Maybe the UFO's come first and then the mandatory chipping (Ronald Reagan did say an outside threat will bring us together). I might've said too much here but it's gotta be said.

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    Member Jaysen's Avatar
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    Lol, Oh man lol.. You can definitely tell I'm new to these forums and stuff. I have no idea how to reply with quotes.. as you saw above lol.. that's funny.

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Start a quote with the tag "[qu ote]" (but without the gap!) and end it with "[/qu ote]" (again without the gap) - you can just type those in where you need them around toext to make it a quote.

    And you can use "[e x]" and "[/e x]" for "external information" such as passages copied from documents.

    Those are the main 2 you will use.

    If a cashless society isn't bad, how do you propose it might be achieved?

    I live in New Zealand and pretty much don't need cash any more - except for my dancing lessons!! I carry 2 cards - a credit card with a chip, and an "EFTPOS" one without. I can also make payments in some circumstances with my phone should UI set it up for that (which I haven't 'cos I dont' see the need yet and it looks horribly compicated to my aging mind!) Sometimes I forget my walletwith the cards and that is quite irritating.

    And I do not beleive in the judeao-christian-moslem god at all any more - I grew out of it.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    Senior Member Pete Tar's Avatar
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    Revelation was written about twenty years after the fall of Jerusalem. The author, who we know only as John, had lived during the horrors that accompanied fall of the city. Imagine: the Roman Empire is surrounding Jerusalem. At the same time, civil war is raging within the walls. People are literally starving to death. As the siege continues, the Romans capture 20,000 Jews and crucify them on the walls of the city—while the city still is under siege.
    ...
    At the time Revelation is written, about twenty years after the devastating events of The Great Revolt, the young scattered Christian movement is being persecuted. They are treated like Blacks in the South during the ‘30s and ‘40s. A Christian carpenter might not be able to get work. Some are lynched. John, himself, is writing from exile, so whatever he was preaching was viewed by the Roman Empire as a threat to law and order.

    Why was the message so threatening?
    Clearly, part of his message was “Stop participating in the imperial cult. Stop participating in the patriotic way of life of the Roman Empire which requires paying homage to the gods of the Empire and in particular the emperor as an incarnation of God.” The Early Christian movement was an alternative to the way of empire. You know, Jesus is called “Lord and Savior”. If you ask where did that language came from, that language came from Caesar. Caesar was “Lord and Savior.” Christians celebrate the birthday of Jesus on December 25, which was when Roman celebrated the birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The pagans believed that if they didn’t take care of the gods, the gods wouldn’t take care of them. By forbidding the cult of the gods, the Christians threatened this balance.
    ...
    He is writing a book that combines familiar political images. The dragons, for example, are much like our political cartoons. When you see an eagle and a bear you know it means the United States and the Soviet Union. For him, he is using images largely out of Hebrew scripture to convey what the Roman Empire is, and what he believes will happen to the early Christian movement. John’s primary message comes in Chapter 18: Empire will fall. Rome cannot last. This power structure that seems so big and is so crushing of the people will crumble, and God will re-create out of the ruins a new Jerusalem. John continually counsels the movement to hold fast: Those who endure to the end will be saved. This is a book of hope: The empire is going to fall. God is going to make a way where there is no way.
    ...
    Almost all the imagery in the book of Revelation is rooted in the Hebrew scriptures, and some comes from Greek myths. In Chapter 12, you have the woman clothed in the sun and Satan falls out of the sky and there is this dragon that chases the woman. Well, that is the birth of Apollo. Domitian, who is the emperor at that time, he likens himself to Apollo. He is the sun god. So John is taking this known story and writing a counter-myth. He is saying that Domitian is not so important as he thinks. The birth of the child, Jesus, that’s the real big story.

    The images of Jesus himself are rooted in Hebrew stories. They simply cannot be understood unless you know that they are coming from the book of Daniel and Ezekiel and Zachariah. The narrative, the story line is rooted in the Exodus story in which God liberates the Jews from Pharaoh’s empire – walks them through the Red Sea and the wilderness and sends them to a promised land. Revelation is a recapitulation, a re-telling of the same story. God is the god who frees us from empire, whether Pharaoh or Dominion. We will come out of this into a land flowing with milk and honey. One of the big exhortations of the book is: “Come out of her.”—Come out of Roman Empire (as the Jews came out of Egypt).
    http://debunkingchristianity.blogspo...or-set-of.html


    Pagels, however, says the writer of Revelation didn’t really intend 666 as the devil’s digits. He was describing another incarnation of evil: The Roman emperor, Nero.

    The arrogant and demented Nero was particularly despised by the earliest followers of Jesus, including the writer of Revelation. Nero was said to have burned followers of Jesus alive to illuminate his garden.
    But the author of Revelation couldn’t safely name Nero, so he used the Jewish numerology system to spell out Nero’s imperial name, Pagels says.
    Pagels says that John may have had in mind other meanings for the mark of the beast: the imperial stamp Romans used on official documents, tattoos authorizing people to engage in Roman business, or the images of Roman emperors on stamps and coins.
    Since Revelation’s author writes in “the language of dreams and nightmares,” Pagels says it’s easy for outsiders to misconstrue the book’s original meaning.
    ...

    The author of Revelation hated Rome, but he also scorned another group – a group of people we would call Christians today, Pagels says.
    There’s a common perception that there was a golden age of Christianity, when most Christians agreed on an uncontaminated version of the faith. Yet there was never one agreed-upon Christianity. There were always clashing visions.
    Revelation reflects some of those early clashes in the church, Pagels says.
    That idea isn’t new territory for Pagels. She won the National Book Award for “The Gnostic Gospels,” a 1979 book that examined a cache of newly discovered “secret” gospels of Jesus. The book, along with other work from Pagels, argues that there were other accounts of Jesus’ life that were suppressed by early church leaders because it didn’t fit with their agenda.
    The author of Revelation was like an activist crusading for traditional values. In his case, he was a devout Jew who saw Jesus as the messiah. But he didn’t like the message that the apostle Paul and other followers of Jesus were preaching.
    This new message insisted that gentiles could become followers of Jesus without adopting the requirements of the Torah. It accepted women leaders, and intermarriage with gentiles, Pagels says.
    The new message was a lot like what we call Christianity today.
    That was too much for the author of Revelation. At one point, he calls a woman leader in an early church community a “Jezebel.” He calls one of those gentile-accepting churches a “synagogue of Satan.”
    John was defending a form of Christianity that would be eclipsed by the Christians he attacked, Pagels says.
    “What John of Patmos preached would have looked old-fashioned – and simply wrong to Paul’s converts…,” she writes.
    The author of Revelation was a follower of Jesus, but he wasn’t what some people would call a Christian today, Pagels says.
    “There’s no indication that he read Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount or that he read the gospels or Paul’s letters,” she says. “….He doesn’t even say Jesus died for your sins.”
    ...

    There’s no other book in the Bible quite like Revelation, but there are plenty of books like Revelation that didn’t make it into the Bible, Pagels says.
    Early church leaders suppressed an “astonishing” range of books that claimed to be revelations from apostles such as Peter and James. Many of these books were read and treasured by Christians throughout the Roman Empire, she says.
    There was even another “Secret Revelation of John.” In this one, Jesus wasn’t a divine warrior, but someone who first appeared to the apostle Paul as a blazing light, then as a child, an old man and, some scholars say, a woman.
    So why did the revelation from John of Patmos make it into the Bible, but not the others?
    Pagels traces that decision largely to Bishop Athanasius, a pugnacious church leader who championed Revelation about 360 years after the death of Jesus.
    Athanasius was so fiery that during his 46 years as bishop he was deposed and exiled five times. He was primarily responsible for shaping the New Testament while excluding books he labeled as hearsay, Pagels says.
    Many church leaders opposed including Revelation in the New Testament. Athanasius’s predecessor said the book was “unintelligible, irrational and false.”

    Athanasius, though, saw Revelation as a useful political tool. He transformed it into an attack ad against Christians who questioned him.
    Rome was no longer the enemy; those who questioned church authority were the anti-Christs in Athanasius’s reading of Revelation, Pagels says.
    “Athanasius interprets Revelation’s cosmic war as a vivid picture of his own crusade against heretics and reads John’s visions as a sharp warning to Christian dissidents,” she writes. “God is about to divide the saved from the damned – which now means dividing the ‘orthodox’ from ‘heretics.’ ’’
    Centuries later, Revelation still divides people. Pagels calls it the strangest and most controversial book in the Bible.
    Even after writing a book about it, Pagels has hardly mastered its meaning.
    “The book is the hardest one in the Bible to understand,” Pagels says. “I don’t think anyone completely understands it.”
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...of-revelation/

    "Details beget facts, and facts, judiciously sent forth, become assassins."

  23. #22
    Senior Member Pete Tar's Avatar
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    Revelation was written about twenty years after the fall of Jerusalem. The author, who we know only as John, had lived during the horrors that accompanied fall of the city. Imagine: the Roman Empire is surrounding Jerusalem. At the same time, civil war is raging within the walls. People are literally starving to death. As the siege continues, the Romans capture 20,000 Jews and crucify them on the walls of the city—while the city still is under siege.
    ...
    At the time Revelation is written, about twenty years after the devastating events of The Great Revolt, the young scattered Christian movement is being persecuted. They are treated like Blacks in the South during the ‘30s and ‘40s. A Christian carpenter might not be able to get work. Some are lynched. John, himself, is writing from exile, so whatever he was preaching was viewed by the Roman Empire as a threat to law and order.

    Why was the message so threatening?
    Clearly, part of his message was “Stop participating in the imperial cult. Stop participating in the patriotic way of life of the Roman Empire which requires paying homage to the gods of the Empire and in particular the emperor as an incarnation of God.” The Early Christian movement was an alternative to the way of empire. You know, Jesus is called “Lord and Savior”. If you ask where did that language came from, that language came from Caesar. Caesar was “Lord and Savior.” Christians celebrate the birthday of Jesus on December 25, which was when Roman celebrated the birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The pagans believed that if they didn’t take care of the gods, the gods wouldn’t take care of them. By forbidding the cult of the gods, the Christians threatened this balance.
    ...
    He is writing a book that combines familiar political images. The dragons, for example, are much like our political cartoons. When you see an eagle and a bear you know it means the United States and the Soviet Union. For him, he is using images largely out of Hebrew scripture to convey what the Roman Empire is, and what he believes will happen to the early Christian movement. John’s primary message comes in Chapter 18: Empire will fall. Rome cannot last. This power structure that seems so big and is so crushing of the people will crumble, and God will re-create out of the ruins a new Jerusalem. John continually counsels the movement to hold fast: Those who endure to the end will be saved. This is a book of hope: The empire is going to fall. God is going to make a way where there is no way.
    ...
    Almost all the imagery in the book of Revelation is rooted in the Hebrew scriptures, and some comes from Greek myths. In Chapter 12, you have the woman clothed in the sun and Satan falls out of the sky and there is this dragon that chases the woman. Well, that is the birth of Apollo. Domitian, who is the emperor at that time, he likens himself to Apollo. He is the sun god. So John is taking this known story and writing a counter-myth. He is saying that Domitian is not so important as he thinks. The birth of the child, Jesus, that’s the real big story.

    The images of Jesus himself are rooted in Hebrew stories. They simply cannot be understood unless you know that they are coming from the book of Daniel and Ezekiel and Zachariah. The narrative, the story line is rooted in the Exodus story in which God liberates the Jews from Pharaoh’s empire – walks them through the Red Sea and the wilderness and sends them to a promised land. Revelation is a recapitulation, a re-telling of the same story. God is the god who frees us from empire, whether Pharaoh or Dominion. We will come out of this into a land flowing with milk and honey. One of the big exhortations of the book is: “Come out of her.”—Come out of Roman Empire (as the Jews came out of Egypt).
    http://debunkingchristianity.blogspo...or-set-of.html


    Pagels, however, says the writer of Revelation didn’t really intend 666 as the devil’s digits. He was describing another incarnation of evil: The Roman emperor, Nero.

    The arrogant and demented Nero was particularly despised by the earliest followers of Jesus, including the writer of Revelation. Nero was said to have burned followers of Jesus alive to illuminate his garden.
    But the author of Revelation couldn’t safely name Nero, so he used the Jewish numerology system to spell out Nero’s imperial name, Pagels says.
    Pagels says that John may have had in mind other meanings for the mark of the beast: the imperial stamp Romans used on official documents, tattoos authorizing people to engage in Roman business, or the images of Roman emperors on stamps and coins.
    Since Revelation’s author writes in “the language of dreams and nightmares,” Pagels says it’s easy for outsiders to misconstrue the book’s original meaning.
    ...

    The author of Revelation hated Rome, but he also scorned another group – a group of people we would call Christians today, Pagels says.
    There’s a common perception that there was a golden age of Christianity, when most Christians agreed on an uncontaminated version of the faith. Yet there was never one agreed-upon Christianity. There were always clashing visions.
    Revelation reflects some of those early clashes in the church, Pagels says.
    That idea isn’t new territory for Pagels. She won the National Book Award for “The Gnostic Gospels,” a 1979 book that examined a cache of newly discovered “secret” gospels of Jesus. The book, along with other work from Pagels, argues that there were other accounts of Jesus’ life that were suppressed by early church leaders because it didn’t fit with their agenda.
    The author of Revelation was like an activist crusading for traditional values. In his case, he was a devout Jew who saw Jesus as the messiah. But he didn’t like the message that the apostle Paul and other followers of Jesus were preaching.
    This new message insisted that gentiles could become followers of Jesus without adopting the requirements of the Torah. It accepted women leaders, and intermarriage with gentiles, Pagels says.
    The new message was a lot like what we call Christianity today.
    That was too much for the author of Revelation. At one point, he calls a woman leader in an early church community a “Jezebel.” He calls one of those gentile-accepting churches a “synagogue of Satan.”
    John was defending a form of Christianity that would be eclipsed by the Christians he attacked, Pagels says.
    “What John of Patmos preached would have looked old-fashioned – and simply wrong to Paul’s converts…,” she writes.
    The author of Revelation was a follower of Jesus, but he wasn’t what some people would call a Christian today, Pagels says.
    “There’s no indication that he read Jesus’ Sermon on the Mount or that he read the gospels or Paul’s letters,” she says. “….He doesn’t even say Jesus died for your sins.”
    ...

    There’s no other book in the Bible quite like Revelation, but there are plenty of books like Revelation that didn’t make it into the Bible, Pagels says.
    Early church leaders suppressed an “astonishing” range of books that claimed to be revelations from apostles such as Peter and James. Many of these books were read and treasured by Christians throughout the Roman Empire, she says.
    There was even another “Secret Revelation of John.” In this one, Jesus wasn’t a divine warrior, but someone who first appeared to the apostle Paul as a blazing light, then as a child, an old man and, some scholars say, a woman.
    So why did the revelation from John of Patmos make it into the Bible, but not the others?
    Pagels traces that decision largely to Bishop Athanasius, a pugnacious church leader who championed Revelation about 360 years after the death of Jesus.
    Athanasius was so fiery that during his 46 years as bishop he was deposed and exiled five times. He was primarily responsible for shaping the New Testament while excluding books he labeled as hearsay, Pagels says.
    Many church leaders opposed including Revelation in the New Testament. Athanasius’s predecessor said the book was “unintelligible, irrational and false.”

    Athanasius, though, saw Revelation as a useful political tool. He transformed it into an attack ad against Christians who questioned him.
    Rome was no longer the enemy; those who questioned church authority were the anti-Christs in Athanasius’s reading of Revelation, Pagels says.
    “Athanasius interprets Revelation’s cosmic war as a vivid picture of his own crusade against heretics and reads John’s visions as a sharp warning to Christian dissidents,” she writes. “God is about to divide the saved from the damned – which now means dividing the ‘orthodox’ from ‘heretics.’ ’’
    Centuries later, Revelation still divides people. Pagels calls it the strangest and most controversial book in the Bible.
    Even after writing a book about it, Pagels has hardly mastered its meaning.
    “The book is the hardest one in the Bible to understand,” Pagels says. “I don’t think anyone completely understands it.”
    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/0...of-revelation/

    "Details beget facts, and facts, judiciously sent forth, become assassins."

  24. #23
    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Without trying to denigrate the whole analysis, 20 years after the Siege of Jerusalem was well after Nero's death in 67CE - the siege ended in 70CE, so 20 years after that would be 90CE, so that part of it seems unlikely.

    The rest of it - political infighting among christians, etc., - who really knows - it's a good story!
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

  25. #24
    Member Jaysen's Avatar
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    Thanks MickC.. I still don't get how to quote but it's okay.. I'll manage.

    How will the elitist achieve a cashless society?

    Um.. Honestly Idk.. If I worked in the Trilateral Commission (founded by David Rockefeller), or the Council on Foreign Relations (Hilary Clinton admitted by accident that they control us lol), The Bilderberg Group (Secret Elite Club), Bohemian Club (Secret Club) or was a part of any of these groups (like a 33rd Degree Freemason, funny also how many of America's political leaders are Freemasons) I would be able to give you some insight.

    We followers of Yeshua do not believe in the Islamic God. The Quran's version of the Messiah (12th Imam/Mahdi) is almost Identical to the Christian version of the "antichrist". What a way to cause divide among people lol. Our adversary (the devil) is very crafty and extremely, extremely intelligent.

    We people need to see what is happening before our eyes and do a little searching.. This whole Obamacare device surveillance is idk.. I still don't get why in the world would you have to take Health Care to the Supreme Court to have it imposed on your citizens? This is America for crying out loud lol..

    You heard Obama recently talking about Immigration Reform? Don't be surprised if he brings in a National ID Card with RFID technology (you gotta ease the chip in to prevent backlash from the people).. Hear what Ron Paul had to say about it (R.Paul said this a while back but I just heard on tv the other day Obama talking a lot about immigrants):

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IfZ1hSSzE8

  26. #25
    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    The clubs can't be very secret if we know they exist and even publish their attendances online.

    I'm curious about what it was Hillary said about the Council for Foreign Relations controlling us - perhaps you can provide a link?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

  27. #26
    Member Jaysen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
    The clubs can't be very secret if we know they exist and even publish their attendances online.

    I'm curious about what it was Hillary said about the Council for Foreign Relations controlling us - perhaps you can provide a link?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2T-5Pd3oYY < That's the Hilary Link.

    I'm curious to know, if they aren't so secret then can you please provide a link as to what exactly goes on in there and what is discussed?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAV5enW2nl4 < Take a look at what goes on in the Bohemian Club (that's America for you, That Great City which rules over the Kings of the earth.. yes Babylon the Great America is... We will invade Iran, and Russia from a submarine will Nuke us [the bible describes a plague extremely similar to a nuclear blast] to oblivion. The bible says the merchants who became rich from her, will mourn that great city which ruled over the earth)

    I'm sorry to get all biblical.

    I posted a link for you if you care to know what goes on in one of these secret societies (Bohemian Club).. I'm sure as smart as you are, you already know about this one.

    It looks satanic to me lol. Molech? Old Testament? Bible? What the h*** is this?? What are our leaders doing?? Sighs, The bible does say Satan is the prince of this world and I presume if you worship him and glorify him he will bless you. I guess these men are just having honest good fun, right?

  28. #27
    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    So nothing that says that the CF runs america at all then - like many organizations it has opinions about how he US "should" be run - heck even I have opinions like that.

    And like all lobby groups it makes those opinions known where it can.

    I'm curious to know, if they aren't so secret then can you please provide a link as to what exactly goes on in there and what is discussed? [/quote]

    Here you go - Bilderberg, Bohemian Club

    If they were "secret" then how come we know about them in the first place??

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAV5enW2nl4 < Take a look at what goes on in the Bohemian Club
    I didn't see anything at all about what actually goes on at all - lots of accusatoins, lots of supposition, lots of labelling stuff as luciferian, etc - typical Alex Jones - long on words, short on evidence.

    It looks satanic to me lol. Molech? Old Testament? Bible? What the h*** is this??
    As far as I can tell "this" is all sh** that Alex Jones has labelled it in order to make money.

    I guess these men are just having honest good fun, right?
    There seems more evidence of that than any actual devil worship, so yeah.

    Quote Content from external source:

    "My lasting impression was of an all-pervading sense of immaturity: the Elvis impersonators, the pseudo-pagan spooky rituals, the heavy drinking. These people might have reached the apex of their professions but emotionally they seemed trapped in their college years
    - Ron Johnson quoted on the wiki page linked above

    All in all your "evidence" is, sadly, really just about how you have been deceived and lied to by the conspiracy industry.
    Last edited by MikeC; January 30th, 2013 at 11:03 PM.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

  29. #28
    Member Jaysen's Avatar
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    @MikeC.. So you didn't see a bunch of men around a big statue of an owl? You didn't hear any chanting? The video is long (11 parts to it) but I'm sure if you just google cremation of care it'll take you right to that portion.

    MikeC, I'm just trying to help you free yourself from this Matrix type world we live in (and turn to your Maker). You have no idea, I understand how you feel completely. Last year I felt the same exact way as you do. I never, ever, ever could have even imagined such a conspiracy existed. I totally put off any type of crazy information. I just didn't know any better at the time. I was programmed to accept what reality was by my parents, television and the people around me.

    One time when I was 19 (i'm 29 now) years old listening to the radio I heard a guy talk about 9/11 and how there was no way a skyscraper could come down like that from fire (he said it came down demolition style, like Building 7). He said the supposed plane that hit the pentagon cut a perfect sized chuck out of the pentagon. He asked what happened to the wings of that plane because the cut was too perfect (there was no mark on the pentagon from the wings).. he would go on and on and on with all these facts and questions. I remember listening to him and wanting him dead (preferably hung). I remember saying to myself "how can they allow this man on the radio spew out such nonsense!!". I literally thought the man was crazy as f***.

    10 years later here I am saying "those crazy people might be on to something".

    My whole journey into this global conspiracy was completely by accident because I didn't care to know, at all. It was all garbage to me but I kept hearing the term Illuminati and Freemasonry.. I did not give 2 s**** about it but I said what the f*** let me find out once and for all what it is.. so I saw a video and it lead me through the craziest journey ever!! I watched hours upon hours upon hours upon hours of all the lies we've been told (JFK gave a beautiful speech on secret societies and how he did not want them in AMERICA any more..we know what happened to him and his brothers afterwards).

    What's funny is that I never believed in this whole conspiracy thing but I did believe in bible prophecy. I've been studying bible prophecy for over a decade (ever since I was 15). And studying this whole conspiracy thing is like bible prophecy coming to life! It's like the missing puzzle piece I was never looking for. They are connected I found out. A lot of people don't understand bible prophecy and the same goes with this whole conspiracy thing. There are some who understand bible prophecy but know nothing about the conspiracy and vice versa. Those who know both, bible prophecy and this whole conspiracy know a little about this world.

    David Icke can share some knowledge on that since he has been studying this global conspiracy for the past 25 years. Bill Cooper (US CIA agent) can also inform you on this global conspiracy. Bill Cooper even warned us of 9/11 before it happened (Bill is dead). Aaron Russo can tell you as well (he's dead too). Alex Jones can tell you (you are aware of Mr. Jones I see). Rik Clay can tell you (he's dead). Even Ron Paul has given speeches and interviews where he talks about this stuff.

    Here is a link if you care to know the real world. It's pretty eye opening and I tell you, once you learn the truth you can never see the world the same again.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYZksdzVxic It's called NWO: Secret Societies and Biblical Prophecy Vol. 1 (Extremely Informative, Highly Recommended)
    Last edited by Jaysen; January 30th, 2013 at 11:58 PM. Reason: adding

  30. #29
    Senior Member Pete Tar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    MikeC, I'm just trying to help you free yourself from this Matrix type world we live in (and turn to your Maker). You have no idea, I understand how you feel completely. Last year I felt the same exact way as you do. I never, ever, ever could have even imagined such a conspiracy existed. I totally put off any type of crazy information. I just didn't know any better at the time. I was programmed to accept what reality was by my parents, television and the people around me.
    You have just entered the exciting and highly addictive world of conspiracy theory. It's a rush isn't it?
    But it's a story. As much as our mainstream consensus reality is a story, an alternative to that story isn't automatically the truth, it's still another story to believe in. And maybe consensus reality is a consensus for good reason based on actual truths, and not just because we've all been brainwashed.

    There's actually a middle ground, where what you are told by authority isn't everything it's supposed to be and your heroes aren't neccessarily pure forces of good, but they aren't evil alien warlocks looking to harvest your brain energy either. They're just human's being selfish, doing good, trying to create success and security for themselves and loved ones, some for the greater good of all whatever they happen to believe that is.
    We should always keep a cynical eye on those we give power to, but we shouldn't indulge in fantasy cosmic battles of good and evil. That stuff is just myth.
    "Details beget facts, and facts, judiciously sent forth, become assassins."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    I think people would choose just about anything if they believed their lives depended on it. They would choose to have 666 tattooed on their foreheads if they believed their lives depended on it. So that's rather a rhetorical question.
    Your wrong id rather die than succumb to such mind control fear tactics, And i probably will die protesting such blasphemy to the universal law of equal right to indulge in ones free will, and my will is to live in Love and not in Fear.........of anything, not even death, because we are eternal we cannot die we can only change form like every other organic material on this plane!! Dont be fooled everyone wake up!!!

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    Member Jaysen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Tar View Post
    You have just entered the exciting and highly addictive world of conspiracy theory. It's a rush isn't it?
    But it's a story. As much as our mainstream consensus reality is a story, an alternative to that story isn't automatically the truth, it's still another story to believe in. And maybe consensus reality is a consensus for good reason based on actual truths, and not just because we've all been brainwashed.

    There's actually a middle ground, where what you are told by authority isn't everything it's supposed to be and your heroes aren't neccessarily pure forces of good, but they aren't evil alien warlocks looking to harvest your brain energy either. They're just human's being selfish, doing good, trying to create success and security for themselves and loved ones, some for the greater good of all whatever they happen to believe that is.
    We should always keep a cynical eye on those we give power to, but we shouldn't indulge in fantasy cosmic battles of good and evil. That stuff is just myth.
    Tell me why in the Dark Knight rises (Batman Movie) there are references to Sandy Hook (biggest school massacre) and Aurora (biggest massacre on US soil)? Coincidence or Conspiracy?

    Tell me why the government (NASA, the President and other high ranking officials know) knows of the existence of UFO's but has kept mum on the matter? Yet other countries (Mexico, Russia, China, UK, France to name some) have out saying that they do exist? Some of these countries say there is even aliens among us (i have never seen one but would not doubt if they look just like us). What I can tell you is I saw a UFO before and it was very close (house level).

    I told my friends and family about it. I was shocked to find out that they had similar encounters with UFO's! They all described a different looking UFO. The one I saw was the same one Joe Kucinich saw (2008 Presidential Nominee, another crazy guy huh?).

    Why the USA like to keep it's citizens in the dark??

    Tell me why JFK gave his speech on secrecy and secret societies?? If they are not real then why give a speech. He's the president.. I'm sure he was crazy conspiracy nut like the rest of them. yeah lol.. sure.. right.

    Oh let me add, tell me why Sherrif Arpaio and Donald Trump conducted an investigation on Obama's birth certificate and both were shocked with their findings? Tell me Obama's social security number raises red flags when put through E-Verify?? Tell me why the day before OBAMA was to receive his Nobel Peace Prize there was a spiral in the sky in Norway(reporters didn't know what it was)? Tell me why a man receives a Nobel Peace Prize for things he will do in the future?? C'mon man.. lol..

    If you can answer half these questions (I doubt it, you do not seem to have an inquisitive personality but hey you are on this thread so maybe you'll surprise me), I'll be happy. Do some research if you have to.. I did. Don't be lazy now Mr. Pete Tar.
    Last edited by Jaysen; January 31st, 2013 at 09:31 AM.

  34. #32
    Member Jaysen's Avatar
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    @ MikeC

    Check this video out.. it's crazy!

    ORIGINAL - VIRAL VIDEO - INADVERTENTLY CONFIRMED BY RABBI! Did Jesus Reveal The Antichrist?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDRl3QNkExA

  35. #33
    Senior Member Pete Tar's Avatar
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    uurgh...
    Why should I tell you why? Those are your concerns, not mine.
    I have researched your research and found it to be mostly baseless. But it's exciting and makes the world seem more interesting. (The world is infinitely more marvellous than we can imagine, but we are just constantly primed to seek bigger and bigger sensation and to get bored with what is always in front of us.)

    Sandy Hook batman reference? Do you know how large the information cloud we live is and how many infinite permutations of data correlation can arise? Yes, coincidence. Maybe the collective un-conscious of humanity knew and found an outlet in a piece of imaginative art? Or maybe not.
    Sandy Hook is a place in New York cty. Gotham city is an alternative version of New York and has always closely mirrored it.

    UFOs are definitely interesting. The government knows of the existence of Unidentified Flying Objects? Doesn't everyone? They do sometimes say stuff. "we've identified what this object was", but people choose to not believe them. Why would they need to say "there's an object, and it's unidentified"? Governments don't usually like to make statements admitting they don't know what something is. There ARE often good explanations that fit the observed phenomena, but it wont satisfy your need for sensation if that's what you have.
    Congrats on seeing a real live one, I'm envious. I don't doubt that it would be awesome and freaky and make you look for answers.
    Some people say that aliens are already here? People say lots of things, but is there any evidence other than a compelling and exciting story?

    Sheriff's investigation? Flawed, and clearly biased by agenda. Having an agenda wouldn't invalidate the truth, if they had actually found any. They did not.
    here is good analysis of why...
    http://metabunk.org/threads/883-Debu...th+certificate

    JFK quotes? http://metabunk.org/threads/319-Debu...hlight=opposed

    http://metabunk.org/threads/162-Debu...hlight=opposed
    "Details beget facts, and facts, judiciously sent forth, become assassins."

  36. #34
    Member hemi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    Tell me why the government (NASA, the President and other high ranking officials know) knows of the existence of UFO's but has kept mum on the matter? Yet other countries (Mexico, Russia, China, UK, France to name some) have out saying that they do exist? Some of these countries say there is even aliens among us (i have never seen one but would not doubt if they look just like us). What I can tell you is I saw a UFO before and it was very close (house level).
    Can you point to one official document, from any country on Earth, which states that UFOs (of an extraterrestrial nature) are real, and/or that there are aliens among us?

  37. #35
    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    @MikeC.. So you didn't see a bunch of men around a big statue of an owl? You didn't hear any chanting? The video is long (11 parts to it) but I'm sure if you just google cremation of care it'll take you right to that portion.
    no sorry - I didn't want to spend an hour of my life listening to Alex Jones prattling on so I wwatched the link you gave, it was utter nonsense, and I couldn't bring myself to bother with anything more.

    OK - so men chant around a 40' owl. How is that ruling the world?? uz:


    MikeC, I'm just trying to help you free yourself from this Matrix type world we live in (and turn to your Maker).
    Well I'm sure that is a good intention on your part - but I do not think I livein a "matrix like world" at all.

    You have no idea, I understand how you feel completely. Last year I felt the same exact way as you do. I never, ever, ever could have even imagined such a conspiracy existed. I totally put off any type of crazy information. I just didn't know any better at the time. I was programmed to accept what reality was by my parents, television and the people around me.
    So how come you can't actually provide and GOOD evidence? All you have is drivel.

    One time when I was 19 (i'm 29 now) years old listening to the radio I heard a guy talk about 9/11 and how there was no way a skyscraper could come down like that from fire (he said it came down demolition style, like Building 7). He said the supposed plane that hit the pentagon cut a perfect sized chuck out of the pentagon. He asked what happened to the wings of that plane because the cut was too perfect (there was no mark on the pentagon from the wings).. he would go on and on and on with all these facts and questions. I remember listening to him and wanting him dead (preferably hung). I remember saying to myself "how can they allow this man on the radio spew out such nonsense!!". I literally thought the man was crazy as f***.

    10 years later here I am saying "those crazy people might be on to something".
    Only "might"?

    Especially since tht guy was ignorant and all those questions were pretty damned easy to answer.

    sounds liek a very poor basis to reject "reality" in favour of somethign that yuo cant' actually put a finger on as existing.

    What's funny is that I never believed in this whole conspiracy thing but I did believe in bible prophecy.
    they amount to the same thing - so in fact you did beleive in "the whole conspiracy thing" - but it was eth religious conspiracy.

    I find it laughable that you make this distinction.

    I wish you luck digging yourself out of teh hole you aer in - but sadly I suspect you wil suffer a lot mroe damage before you do, if ever.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

  38. #36
    Member Jaysen's Avatar
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    "uurgh...
    Why should I tell you why? Those are your concerns, not mine."

    I thought so..


    "I have researched your research and found it to be mostly baseless. But it's exciting and makes the world seem more interesting. (The world is infinitely more marvellous than we can imagine, but we are just constantly primed to seek bigger and bigger sensation and to get bored with what is always in front of us.)"

    Baseless? What is baseless? I thought you read my post.

    "Sandy Hook batman reference? Do you know how large the information cloud we live is and how many infinite permutations of data correlation can arise? Yes, coincidence. Maybe the collective un-conscious of humanity knew and found an outlet in a piece of imaginative art? Or maybe not. Sandy Hook is a place in New York cty. Gotham city is an alternative version of New York and has always closely mirrored it."

    Yeah man. It's a coincidence lol.. and So is the 9/11 references in the Rugrats movie and cartoons (I can't make this stuff up). Let me not forget an episode on the Simpsons as well lol. That's just two I pointed out. There's more references to 9/11 but you're not concerned with governments staging false flag events on their own people for the purpose of achieving an agenda since false flag events have been going on for a long time. I'm sure you don't know what the NWO is.


    "UFOs are definitely interesting. The government knows of the existence of Unidentified Flying Objects? Doesn't everyone? They do sometimes say stuff. "we've identified what this object was", but people choose to not believe them. Why would they need to say "there's an object, and it's unidentified"? Governments don't usually like to make statements admitting they don't know what something is. There ARE often good explanations that fit the observed phenomena, but it wont satisfy your need for sensation if that's what you have.
    Congrats on seeing a real live one, I'm envious. I don't doubt that it would be awesome and freaky and make you look for answers.
    Some people say that aliens are already here? People say lots of things, but is there any evidence other than a compelling and exciting story?"

    Like I said, I saw one. My friends and family saw one. Joe Kucinich saw one. Jimmy Carter saw one. The government has a base full of them lol.. I believe these UFO's use secret technology designed here on earth by perhaps the Germans or Americans or both. I do not believe in aliens from outer space. Now hyper-dimensional beings or extra-dimensional beings, that I do believe exist as I have come in contact with them on several occasions. I was 16 when I first saw one of these things.


    Sheriff's investigation? Flawed, and clearly biased by agenda. Having an agenda wouldn't invalidate the truth, if they had actually found any. They did not.
    here is good analysis of why...
    http://metabunk.org/threads/883-Debu...th+certificate

    Mkay.. Explain the red flags raised from E-Verify? I'm talking about Obama.


    JFK quotes? http://metabunk.org/threads/319-Debu...hlight=opposed

    http://metabunk.org/threads/162-Debu...hlight=opposed

    It's not a quote I'm referring to. It's an actual speech.. sighs.. You people are hard in the heart. You see yet do not see and hear yet do not hear. You purposely ignore the truth lolololol. I'm sorry. In all honesty it has to come from within you to want to know what's really going on out there. Seriously.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnkdfFAqsHA < That's the speech. Sighs.. you people are hopeless.

  39. #37
    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    Mkay.. Explain the red flags raised from E-Verify? I'm talking about Obama.
    ther were no such flags - the supposed images were faked.

    what's more whoever obtained the orignal image that was doctored is probably identified iby the system, which logs each request, so whenever TPTB want to give them a going over right ther is the evidnce of their crime - forgery, and obtaiing SS data under false pretences.

    Quote Content from external source:

    Anyone who knowingly and willfully uses SSNVS to request or obtain information from SSA under false pretenses violates Federal law and may be punished by a fine, imprisonment or both.


    Oops.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

  40. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by hemi View Post
    Can you point to one official document, from any country on Earth, which states that UFOs (of an extraterrestrial nature) are real, and/or that there are aliens among us?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKdvBidbwnQ < I found this.. There are thousands of videos out there.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D55iY...=results_video < There is another one for you.

  41. #39
    Senior Member Cairenn's Avatar
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    You Tube is not a creditable source. There is a You Tube that shows a unicorn also---that doesn't mean there are any.

    What was asked for was an OFFICIAL document from a country

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  43. #40
    Senior Member Pete Tar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysen View Post
    I'm sure you don't know what the NWO is.
    Why yes I do. It's a fecking kick-arse song by Ministry with an awesome riff riding a train straight out of hell.

    "Details beget facts, and facts, judiciously sent forth, become assassins."

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    Clock (February 11th, 2013),hemi (January 31st, 2013),Jazzy (February 1st, 2013)

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