Chemtrails, Insults and Godlike Productions

[George B]

[Admin: tread split off and retitled from http://metabunk.org/showthread.php?p=25705#post25705 ]

No. I disagree with this, and I'm not going to let you get away with it.

Atmospheric science is a cover-all term for a group of disciplines (climatology, meteorology, aeronomy, etc). None of these are "complex". They are all pretty well understood, and studied from high school and undergraduate level. Perhaps you should explain your use of "dynamic" here. I think you threw it in to make the subject sound less tractable than it actually is.

Then you amplify and link that idea with "contrail formation", claiming it to be "obscure area of study". Contrail formation and dissipation is very well understood and has been for a long time. (You and I have covered this on this forum in relation to engine efficiency.) Any problems with this are because of the lack of data. And this is a common problem in all the atmospheric sciences.

I don't know what engineering she studies, but mechanical engineers come across the properties of water and the thermodynamics of it's phase changes in relation to air conditioning and refrigeration. So it's not a completely foreign subject for engineers.

You are apologising for Kristen Meghan with her promotion of the chemtrails meme, but there is really no need to. I think she has already explained that her so called whistle blowing (something about chemicals handling or contamination) has nothing to do with chemtrails (misidentified persistent contrails). It seems to me that she took the opportunity to mention them while she had an audience (the video that was made of her statement or interview). She has no more knowledge or information about them than any of the rank and file followers of Michael J Murphy, Russ Tanner, Harold Saive, and the other movement leaders. But, mention them she did, and she has been called out to back up her statements ... as everybody should be if they make unfounded claims in the public arena.

I think others feel she is the Chemtrail poster girl for whatever reason . . . they tell me she is endorsing several videos about chemtrails on her FaceBook, etc. so seems the discussion is relatively moot. My primary point was . . . she now has been given alternative info contradicting the info from the CT Advocates . . . give her time to assimilate the information and see if she changes her spots.

I don't know you training or education but mine is not geophysical science; I have been researching contrails for over two years and find it confusing, obscure, and difficult to pin down precise explanations detailing the interactions and dynamics of contrail formation, persistence and cirrus cloud formation and propagation and the precise way it effects micro and macro climates . . . the early research regarding the simple Appleman Chart is no longer adequate with the new engine efficiencies and effects of increased air traffic . . . effects of global warming, etc.

[Jazzy]

mine is not geophysical science; I have been researching contrails for over two years and find it confusing, obscure, and difficult

Just as your pals do. Then they conscript like-minded people to do the same.

All the while pretending "special knowledge", and spreading anti-science lies, misinformation, and deliberate disinformation. Dunces wanting to run the school. Absurd.

[George B]

Just as your pals do. Then they conscript like-minded people to do the same.

All the while pretending "special knowledge", and spreading anti-science lies, misinformation, and deliberate disinformation. Dunces wanting to run the school. Absurd.

They are not my pals . . . I don't visit their websites or watch their videos and never did . . . I know them only by what I am told about them on this forum . . .

[Jay Reynolds]

They are not my pals . . . I don't visit their websites or watch their videos and never did . . . I know them only by what I am told about them on this forum . . .

Bullshit. You are very close to 13,000 postings on at least one other forum. You expect us to believe you don't know what's going on? Not buying it....!

[George B]

Bullshit. You are very close to 13,000 postings on at least one other forum. You expect us to believe you don't know what's going on? Not buying it....!

Yeh. . . Why don't you do a random view of my 13,000 posts and see if you can find me referencing or citing a Chemtrail website or video except in response to someone's inquiry (which is rare) or a subject that has no other source like a whistleblower (which is also rare). . . and of course someone else posting a stupid video doesn't count.

[Jazzy]

Yeh. . . Why don't you do a random view of my 13,000 posts and see if you can find me referencing or citing a Chemtrail website or video except in response to someone's inquiry (which is rare) or a subject that has no other source like a whistleblower (which is also rare). . . and of course someone else posting a stupid video doesn't count.

Is this what you mean here?

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1718739/pg3

"The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional"

If that's what you say, George, who am I to disagree with you?

Er, what are the options, exactly?

[Pete Tar]

Gee that place has a weird culture - do people on there only talk in emoticon gifs or what?

(edit)
Ironically, that post could be said to be using point 7.
But it is funny.

[Trigger Hippie]

Gee that place has a weird culture - do people on there only talk in emoticon gifs or what?

QFT. I hate going there. Those emoticons drive me nuts. It makes me feel like I've walked into a kindergarten class or the set of the Pee Wee Herman show.

[George B]

Is this what you mean here?

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1718739/pg3

"The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional"

If that's what you say, George, who am I to disagree with you?

Er, what are the options, exactly?

I created the above as a reaction (an attempt at humor) to the behavior I was witnessing . . . constant attacks from primarily ONE individual whose Avatar was SnakeArlines and his less than polite sidekick Noble (someone your are aware of here). . . thus the Black Cobra on the graphic . . . It was basically a list of his repeated tactics. There is no politeness policy on GLP it is a free-for-all . . .

You failed to include my quote with the graphic . . .

Content from external source:

When I got to GLP two years ago I had not participated in or viewed a forum . . . So after a few experiences with some Shills I made this graphic to post when I saw people attacked . . .

[George B]

Content from external source:

From Jazzy

"The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional"


If that's what you say, George, who am I to disagree with you?


Er, what are the options, exactly?

The option is to keep fighting for what you think is right . . . continue to try to sift through the deception the best you can and press on . . . since there is no limit to the deception you will always be employed . . . LoL!!!

[George B]

QFT. I hate going there. Those emoticons drive me nuts. It makes me feel like I've walked into a kindergarten class or the set of the Pee Wee Herman show.

It was my first experience with a Forum . . . I was attracted by the size and diversity of its participants . . . yes, it is rather childish but ideas kicked around there will not be found anywhere else with such energy . . . it is like reading science fiction fantasy. It was like a tour of wonderland after living in strict military boarding school my whole life . . .

[George B]

Gee that place has a weird culture - do people on there only talk in emoticon gifs or what?

(edit)
Ironically, that post could be said to be using point 7.
But it is funny.

Thanks, it was meant to be funny. . .

[George B]

Here are two other graphics for SnakeAirlines and friends on GLP . . . hope you see the humor . . .

[Mick]

Here was another graphic for SnakeAirlines and friends on GLP . . . hope you see the humor . . .

Humor does not negate insults though. It's basically calling them idiots and morons.

GLP is entertaining, but I'm not sure it's particularly productive. Above Top Secret (ATS) is better. ATS is very sympathetic to the esoteric positions, but has surprisingly good moderation. Some very good debunking goes on in there (unfortunately it usually gets lost in the torrent).

[Jazzy]

How very sweet... ...the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, George... ...you can be sure I will remain so... ...I shudder to think whatever else I might find were I to really search... ...I hadn't wished to do so until you invited me...

after a few experiences with some Shills I made this graphic to post when I saw people attacked . . .

What "Shills" were they, George?

How did you know they were "shills"?

I can imagine apologists for some PTB tenet on the news, writing an article or even a book. But not the same people delving into arcane websites where the catchment may merely number in the hundreds. There isn't that much money around. Diminishing returns and all that.

So I'm interested in whoever it was you could so definitively describe as a "Shills", to be found on that website.

[George B]

Humor does not negate insults though. It's basically calling them idiots and morons.

GLP is entertaining, but I'm not sure it's particularly productive. Above Top Secret (ATS) is better. ATS is very sympathetic to the esoteric positions, but has surprisingly good moderation. Some very good debunking goes on in there (unfortunately it usually gets lost in the torrent).

I don't disagree . . . I used pictures to point out the hypocrisy of the situation . . . It was better than verbally engaging in an insult exchange . . . It was effective at first . . . they were reluctant to try to top the graphics and either left or engaged in a more productive discussion . . . GLP is basically entertainment . . . the truly serious minded normally go elsewhere. But there are still some good, well meaning people there as well . . .

[George B]

How very sweet. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance, George. You can be sure I will remain so. I shudder to think whatever else I might find were I to really search...

You have my permission to search further, as if you needed it . . . I have no problem with 99% of what and how I presented my positions; however, no one is perfect. . .

[Clock]

Interesting George

POLL: Paid Debunkers and Shills . . Do they exist. . . if so . . .WHY? By George B.
12) More than one of the above. . .	52.7% (29)
1) Most are not paid . . . They are jerks on ego trips, harassing people for fun	29.1% (16)
5) Are government Shills used to ID possible security threats	9.1% (5)
3) Are paid to keep controversy going and increase readership and participation on forums and blogs	5.5% (3)
11) Are institutionalized people, prison, mental wards, home custody that are staying occupied. . .	3.6% (2)
2) Are Covert researchers from marketing, image management, and legal firms on fringe populations. . .	0% (0)
4) Are used to identify and manage troublemakers that could cause legal problems for the forum	0% (0)
6) Are entertainment shills researching reaction to new plots & concepts or steal new concepts	0% (0)
7) Are government shills used to pose trial balloons or straw men for research purposes	0% (0)
8) Are government shills used to incite anti-government sentiment. . .	0% (0)
9) Are government shills used to ID new information about, technology, science, etc. to exploit it. . .	0% (0)
10) Are government shills used to locate missing and/fugitive people	0% (0)
Blank (View Results)	(20)

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1718739/pg1

Most are not paid . . . They are jerks on ego trips, harassing people for fun

Thank you George!

Mick, where's my paycheck? I didn't get in the mail last month!

[Mick]

Mick, where's my paycheck? I didn't get in the mail last month!

I don't think George thinks you fall into the "paid" category

Getting a bit OT. Thread splitting.

[George B]

Interesting George

POLL: Paid Debunkers and Shills . . Do they exist. . . if so . . .WHY? By George B.
12) More than one of the above. . .	52.7% (29)
1) Most are not paid . . . They are jerks on ego trips, harassing people for fun	29.1% (16)
5) Are government Shills used to ID possible security threats	9.1% (5)
3) Are paid to keep controversy going and increase readership and participation on forums and blogs	5.5% (3)
11) Are institutionalized people, prison, mental wards, home custody that are staying occupied. . .	3.6% (2)
2) Are Covert researchers from marketing, image management, and legal firms on fringe populations. . .	0% (0)
4) Are used to identify and manage troublemakers that could cause legal problems for the forum	0% (0)
6) Are entertainment shills researching reaction to new plots & concepts or steal new concepts	0% (0)
7) Are government shills used to pose trial balloons or straw men for research purposes	0% (0)
8) Are government shills used to incite anti-government sentiment. . .	0% (0)
9) Are government shills used to ID new information about, technology, science, etc. to exploit it. . .	0% (0)
10) Are government shills used to locate missing and/fugitive people	0% (0)
Blank (View Results)	(20)

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1718739/pg1

Thank you George!

Mick, where's my paycheck? I didn't get in the mail last month!

If there are shills these are my choices below . . . it is a business you know . . . the poll options are taken from comments on the Forum and not necessarily my position at all . . .

3) Are paid to keep controversy going and increase readership and participation on forums and blogs 5.5% (3)

4) Are used to identify and manage troublemakers that could cause legal problems for the forum 0% (0)

[Mick]

Do you think there are people posting on GLP (or here) who are paid to do so?

Can you identify any posts you suspect are made by those people?

[Jazzy]

ATS is very sympathetic to the esoteric positions, but has surprisingly good moderation. Some very good debunking goes on in there (unfortunately it usually gets lost in the torrent).

Really? It must have changed since it banned me. It wouldn't follow any atmospheric science at all when I tried reasoning with it. That was a few years back.

[George B]

Do you think there are people posting on GLP (or here) who are paid to do so?

Can you identify any posts you suspect are made by those people?

I had a discussion with one supposedly looking for employment on GLP or other Forum/Blogs . . . he/she indicated they were paid to keep discussions flowing, identify potential trouble makers to copyright law, political threats, etc that the Forum could be held accountable for . . . so yes I think they do exist in some form . . . in essence they are covert moderators . . .

I also think there are contract individuals from homeland security, especially on the international Forums trying to provoke and identify potential terrorist suspects, recruiters and motivators. The FBI and secret service also doing the same thing for national and international threats . . . this I am sure is aided by key word algorithms designed by NSA . . .

On MetaBunk . . . if you were covert Mick, you would be one . . . LoL!!

[George B]

Can you identify any posts you suspect are made by those people?

Not really . . . I would think to be effective they would try hard to remain covert. . . I would suspect a debunking Forum of your high standards would not attract the real nut cases that the authorities are looking for but might attract people looking for ideas and intelligence topics for study or an author looking for story ideas . . .

Hmmmm . . . one exception could be someone like Jay (not that he is a Shill) a covert investigator would monitor his investigations to identify targets for surveillance of potential violence . . .

[George B]

How very sweet... ...the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, George... ...you can be sure I will remain so... ...I shudder to think whatever else I might find were I to really search... ...I hadn't wished to do so until you invited me...


What "Shills" were they, George?

How did you know they were "shills"?

I can imagine apologists for some PTB tenet on the news, writing an article or even a book. But not the same people delving into arcane websites where the catchment may merely number in the hundreds. There isn't that much money around. Diminishing returns and all that.

So I'm interested in whoever it was you could so definitively describe as a "Shills", to be found on that website.

It was probably an incorrect use of the term . . . should have been . . . Troll . . . something I think you have accused me of . . . however, I do believe paid Shills or covert paid participants have and could be used to entice increased discussion or participation and increase views on a Forum and/or Blog similar to staged verbal confrontations prior to futuer bouts in professional wrestling . . . if you get the analogy . . .

[Pete Tar]

Thanks, it was meant to be funny. . .

I actually meant Jazzy's use of it in the context - I don't really know about the behaviour you were parodying so I missed the joke there, though I'm sure it hit your mark.

[PCWilliams]

I created the above as a reaction (an attempt at humor) to the behavior I was witnessing . . . constant attacks from primarily ONE individual whose Avatar was SnakeArlines and his less than polite sidekick Noble (someone your are aware of here). . . thus the Black Cobra on the graphic . . . It was basically a list of his repeated tactics. There is no politeness policy on GLP it is a free-for-all . . .

You failed to include my quote with the graphic . . .

Content from external source:

When I got to GLP two years ago I had not participated in or viewed a forum . . . So after a few experiences with some Shills I made this graphic to post when I saw people attacked . . .

Looks like you're exercising modes 4 and 5 from your graphic.

[George B]

Looks like you're exercising modes 4 and 5 from your graphic.

Yes . . . at least number four . . . but it was still better than a verbal confrontation . . . I usually maintained calm and a polite demeanor when I was personally attacked but had less tolerance when people (my guests on the threads) who did not deserve insults and rough treatment got hammered . . . then I tended to lose my cool . . .

[Clock]

George, concerning that poll, are you following a bandwagon with these people at GLP? Why did you have to say

Most are not paid . . . They are jerks on ego trips, harassing people for fun

why not just simply say

Most are not paid . . .

Do you feel as if we are harassing you for fun?

[George B]

George, concerning that poll, are you following a bandwagon with these people at GLP? Why did you have to say



why not just simply say



Do you feel as if we are harassing you for fun?

I think you have to understand the culture and general unrestricted, harsh banter practiced on GLP (they have made some attempts to clean it up with their Karma system). . . it in no way is MetaBunk. . . and the poll's vocabulary was an attempt to gain participation in that environment . . . people simply talk that way and act that way . . . there are people who get kicks out of harassing people for fun and entertainment on GLP . . .

[George B]

Do you feel as if we are harassing you for fun?

I think there may be a few individuals who get some mild pleasure confronting someone who does not toe the party line on MetaBunk, but NO . . . I don't think harassment is something you think you are doing or is your collective motive . . .