Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: William Thomas: An Invitation To Politely Discuss the Chemtrail Theory

  1. #1
    Administrator Mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    7,909
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 1,524 Times in 1,014 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4

    William Thomas: An Invitation To Politely Discuss the Chemtrail Theory

    William Thomas is a Canadian writer who was one of the original promoters of the Chemtrail Theory. His bio can be found here:

    http://www.consciousnessbeyondchemtr...illiam-thomas/

    excerpt:

    Quote Content from external source:

    Though Thomas didn’t realize it at the time, in January 1999 an assignment by Environment News Service resulted in his biggest story ever when “Mystery Contrails May Be Modifying Weather” was carried worldwide.In February of that year, the investigative reporter first appeared on Art Bell’s radio program. The story of a phenomenon Thomas called “chemtrails” went viral as citizens across North America corroborated his findings. Seven subsequent chemtrails updates on Coast To Coast attracted such a large following, William Thomas was mentioned as one of Art Bell’s most popular guests in a Time magazine cover story on the famous radio host.
    More documentation followed. Produced by William Thomas in collaboration with B.C. artist Paul Grignon, “Mystery Lines In The Sky” was the first chemtrails video. Thomas’ Chemtrails Conundrum was the first published book on this covert program. The subsequently updated Chemtrails Confirmed has been fully revised and is now available as a downloadable multi-media ebook and DVD.
    Then came 9/11. Appearing in December 2001, Thomas’ deconstruction of official mythology was the first published account of Black Tuesday. All Fall Down: The Politics of Terror and Mass Persuasion was followed in 2008 by Days Of Deception: Ground Zero And Beyond. Though this updated book reads like a thriller, it comes complete with extensive documentation.
    ...
    In this pivotal year of truth and transition, be sure to attend the August 17 opening of the “2012 Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails” conference in Los Angeles. Hear William Thomas recount the highlights of his 12-year investigation into a story that has grown to nearly eight-million online links. Listen to the best documented evidence of the chemtrails cover-up by the award-winning reporter who broke the story. And prepare to be surprised by his latest revelations.


    I went to the conference and watched his presentation. It mostly consisted of very old information that had been debunked before, and a number of recording of phone conversations that were rather difficult to hear. For some reason the conference organizers did not upload his video, but here's a preview:

    Quote Content from external source:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0kRyEzkB5M


    Afterwards I had a nice chat with Thomas. He was very polite. I pointed out an error in his presentation, where he had said contrails need temperatures of -70F to form, when really they need temperatures of -40F. I went home for lunch and looked up where he had originally made this mistake in his book when converting for Celsius to Fahrenheit, and forgetting to add 32. That afternoon I pointed out that he'd been using the incorrect figure for 12 years. He seemed a little thoughtful about this, even saying something like "If you get that wrong for twelve years, who knows what else might be wrong". He recounted how on the plane to Los Angeles he'd noted the outside temperature was -50F, and had thought that was a temperature at which contrails could not form.

    We also discussed in some length the "ice budget" argument against contrails, which basically notes that it's impossible for anything other that contrails to create such long visible trails - because the vast majority of the ice in the contrail comes from the atmosphere itself. A "chemtrail" consisting of powder would quickly dissipate. The opposite of what most chemtrail theorist say. He seemed quite interested in it. He asked for my email so he could contact me later.

    Unfortunately he never did contact me. And his web site continue to promote chemtrails (although it does seem under-maintained)
    http://www.willthomasonline.net/
    In particular he has posted a chemtrails timeline, going up to January 2013:
    http://www.willthomasonline.net/inde...0TO%202013.pdf
    The Jan 10 2013 entry reads:
    Quote Content from external source:

    Dozens of snow sampled taken from the side of Mt. Shasta show aluminum as high as 61,000 ppb

    Which actually refers to a 2008 test that was debunked two years ago.

    When I spoke with Mr Thomas, he struck me as very intelligent and reasonable, and it has been with some disappointment that he seems to have not addressed anything we discussed at the conference. As one of the original chemtrail promoters I think he bears particular responsibility for the propagation of the inaccuracies that allow it to continue.

    So I invite Mr Thomas here to discuss his claims in a polite and science-based environment, here on this forum, in this thread. I don't have any contact information, but will try to contact him via his web-site registration contact.

    Mr Thomas, what I want to know is if you will correct (or issue corrections for) the provably false statements on your web site, and on the various books and videos you have created or contributed to? Will you come here and allow us to politely point out where we think you are in error, and then engage in a civil discussion to determine the real facts?

  2. #2
    Administrator Mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    7,909
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 1,524 Times in 1,014 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Note to other thread participants: This is an open discussion, and this is to be a strictly polite thread. That means JUST facts, and no personal characterizations or observations at all.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Jay Reynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2,392
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 710 Times in 424 Posts
    If Mr. Thomas comes, I propose that we could forward our questions to Mick and allow him to choose them one at a time for discussion, to avoid overwhelming him and to focus closely on exhausting all reasoning for a singular subject before moving on to another.
    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain

  4. #4
    Administrator Mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    7,909
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 1,524 Times in 1,014 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4

  5. #5
    Administrator Mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    7,909
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 1,524 Times in 1,014 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Mr Thomas, a good starting point would be the -70F discrepancy.

    In your book "Chemtrails Confirmed", the 2010 edition, a copy of which is on your website:
    http://www.willthomasonline.net/inde...m%20Thomas.pdf
    you stated:

    Page 45:
    Quote Content from external source:

    Contrails cannot form behind aircraft unless the atmosphere is very cold. As NASA explains: “Contrails only form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 kilometers) where the air is extremely cold (less than -70°F).”


    Page 49:
    Quote Content from external source:

    Remember that for normal contrails to form and linger, temperatures must be -70°F or lower, and humidity values must be 70% or higher at the flight altitudes of observed aircraft.


    Now this is simply a miscalculation, the original text from NASA can still be found here:
    http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/contrail-edu/faq.html
    Quote Content from external source:

    Contrails are human-induced clouds that usually form at very high altitudes (usually above 8 km - about 26,000 ft) where the air is extremely cold (less than -40ºC).


    -40C is -40F, not -70F, as you and I discussed a year ago in Los Angeles.

    Yet your original error has propagated across the internet in the last decade. As a Google search shows:


    This as led to a widespread belief that contrails should be far less common than they are (as -70F is a rarely reached temperature at cruising altitudes). Just a month ago I heard Dane Wigington repeat the -70F error in a conference call. If he's checking the upper air temperatures above Shasta against this -70F, then it's not surprising that he's become convinced of unusual activity.

    What I suggest is that you issue a correction on your web site, correct the error in your book, and if you have an email list of book purchasers, then send them a corrected pdf file,or at least a correction notice. I also suggest you specifically contact Dane to let him know.

    Regardless of the merits of the chemtrail argument, allowing known errors to propagate does nobody any good.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Mick For This Useful Post:

    Ross Marsden (March 5th, 2013)

  7. #6
    Administrator Mick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    7,909
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 1,524 Times in 1,014 Posts
    Blog Entries
    4
    Still not heard from Mr Thomas. Anyone have any ideas as how to contact him?

  8. #7
    Senior Member Jay Reynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2,392
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 710 Times in 424 Posts
    try (###) ###-####
    Last edited by Mick; March 20th, 2013 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Phone number removed
    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain

  9. #8
    Member FreiZeitGeist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Germany (sorry for my bad englisch :)
    Posts
    151
    Thanks
    63
    Thanked 126 Times in 60 Posts
    Another Canadian is inviting People to an open debate:



    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...levant_count=1



    The Movie he will show to the audience is - you guessed it - "What in the World are they spraying"

  10. #9
    Moderator HappyMonday's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    457
    Thanks
    609
    Thanked 113 Times in 71 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by FreiZeitGeist View Post
    Another Canadian is inviting People to an open debate:



    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...levant_count=1


    The Movie he will show to the audience is - you guessed it - "What in the World are they spraying"
    Hmm, I had a quick look back across his facebook group recently and thought he'd backed off on the subject of chemtrails to a greater extent.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Jay Reynolds's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    2,392
    Thanks
    46
    Thanked 710 Times in 424 Posts
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Reynolds View Post
    try (###) ###-####
    Did anyone ever receive a contact back from William Thomas? I can tell you that to my knowledge he has never publicly posted on any message board or forum, ever. Others always did that sort of dirty work, he never had to learn that he told everyone the incorrect temperature for ordinary contrail formation.

    Now,thirteen years later Dane Wigington is repeating his mistake but is spinning the tale to include an allegation that NOAA changed the data, even though the correct -40 degree figure was published in scientific papers in both German and English many years before NOAA was even created.
    "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Gravatar as Default Avatar by 1e2.it