Debunked: Agenda 21, ICLEI, Sovereignty, UN, Depopulation

[Mick]

He says he's "connected the dots", but I think what he's really done has cherry-picked the dots to confirm his own ideas about how the world works. He's reading some kind of evil communist plan into pretty benign movements. Is it really that impossible for these movements to exist WITHOUT this NWO conspiracy?

It seems very reasonable to me that people would be doing these things (conservation, sustainability, family planning) in the absence of the NWO. So where then is the evidence for some conspiracy with world domination as its end goal.

He says:

Content from external source:

Who are they? They include activist groups with private political agendas including the Environmental Defense Fund, National Audubon Society, The Nature Conservancy, National Wildlife Federation, Zero Population Growth, Planned Parenthood, the Sierra Club, the National Education Association, and hundreds more. These groups all have specific political agendas which they desire to become law of the land. Through work in these international summits and conferences, their political wish lists become official government policy.

This is just fear-mongering nonsense. All "activist groups" have "private political agendas", and obviously they would want the law on their side. But then you could also include the NRA, the Minutemen, the Catholics Defense League, and the Tea Party.

The UN deals with transnational issues, so obviously it's going to be involved with sustainability. To find this suspicious is akin to denying that sustainability is an issue.

[PCWilliams]

What do you make of this article Mick:

http://www.newswithviews.com/DeWeese/tom214.htm

This is one heck of a coincidence, i received this same link yesterday from a family member and i spent a bunch of time today going through it and writing down my thoughts.

[Joe]

Sustainable Development is what they call it locally . A wolf in sheeps clothing .

[Unregistered]

As someone who is a on again off again skeptic/believer of these conspiracies, I have a point for and against Agenda 21.

1: Agenda 21 sounds amazing. And it seems logical. The only way to really implement change is you need to change the way people think. GLOBALLY. You need to start a movement. So to all the conspiracy people... yes, One World Government is a nasty sounding term, but in the end... how else is it going to change? With the hundreds of countries, different laws, levels of corruption, how else can you really save humanity from itself?

2: Agenda 21, if legitimate... should be in our faces every day. Discussed openly, and have someone championing it. There has got to be a public speaker out there (at caliber of Obama or any of the famous TED talk people), that can outline not just the ACTION PLAN, but the reasons WHY things have to change.

Click on Google, search for Agenda 21, and then click on NEWS.

Where is the CNN, FOX, MSNBC, BBC on this?

I am being made fun of by friends for buying into this bullshit conspiracy... but this Agenda 21, which regardless of if its a conspiracy or not, is HAPPENING... most of the governments of the world attended and signed off to varying degrees on this...

Did the UN make all those 1000 page books for nothing? Why did 60-70 countries around the world sign off on Agenda 21?

take out the conspiracy, if Agenda 21 is not be taken seriously, it needs to be DISCUSSED openly, and not use fake names to spread its.... agenda? And if Agenda 21 is just a harmless pipe dream, we need to make this public now, deal with it's stupidity, and move on.

The UN has spent millions already on it... take a few of those millions, buy out the paid for media (a conspiracy we all can believe in) and lets end this discussion once and for all.

Whether you believe that this is/isnt a conspiracy... there are a lot of answers that I demand from my government, media, and from the UN for signing things and then forgetting about them.

[high treason]

For those who think Agenda 21, "sustainable development", ICLEI etc is bunk , why does it all seem to add up? There are some pretty base facts that cannot be refuted and are there for all too see.
FACT the Fabian Society, formed in 1884 to continue the work of Karl Marx was instrumental in the formation of the League of Nations, which morphed in to the United Nations.
FACT Agenda 21 is contained within the 1992 Rio accord- if you look deeper in to the UN site, you will find details of what it entails.
FACT "Sustainable Development" is a euphamism for a viable long term human population of 500 million. Oh dear, 93% of us have got to go.
FACT Maurice Strong, a known Socialist has (and still is) highly influential in the UN.
FACT The IPCC reports have been strongly criticized by the IAC, the highest scientific body. Interesting to note that the advice to policymakers is different to the actual full content(which few policymakers would ever bother reading.) I highly recommend reading "The Delinquent Teenager who was Mistaken for the Worlds Greatest Climate Scientist" by Donna Laframboise- an expose on the IPCC.
FACT There has been no global warming since 1998. If the "hockey stick" theory, on which the hysteria and crazy policies are based were true, we would be half way to the fry and die scenario. Even James Lovelock, the father of Gaia theory and AGW has admitted recently that the fears have been exaggerated. He also branded Al Gore's "An Inconvenient Truth" and Tim Flannery's "The Weather Makers" as alarmism. Please note, the radical measures being proposed are predicated on the claims of catastrophe being true.
FACT Real science can NEVER be settled. What rubbish for the relatively new science of climate science, with all its variables, to come out and declare "the science is settled" and refuse to debate the science. REAL science is about poking holes in theories- few theories survive the test of time. Just ONE significant error in the data, modelling or methodology and the theory cannot be regarded as the truth. You do have to get just a little bit suspicious when dissenting views are shouted down and personal attacks employed against those who do not tow the line on AGW.
FACT The Australian Green Party leaders, Bob Brown and Christine Milne have both publicly come out in support of One World Government. Their website/policy has very heavy credence and trust placed in the UN. UN version of One World Government calls for UNELECTED leaders. Do you really think that some bureaucrat in Geneva actually understands or cares about Australian conditions? Besides, the old saying "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely" consistently holds true.

Some of the ultra green activists have called for some pretty radical measures to combat perceived global warming. Some of the insane calls- remove dams, no more wars and war game exercises- too much CO2 released, genetically engineer humans to not eat meat, 100% renewable energy. Our Australian Labor Party has called for a 90% reduction in carbon emissions by 2050. All pretty loony stuff. Basically call for a reversal of almost all human technology over the past 10,000 years-the technology which is that which makes humans competitive in the jungle of life out there.

Which other groups are involved eg Bilderburgs, Rockefellers, Rothschilds etc I am still fathoming out for myself, but UN interference in world affairs is a DEFINATE.

[Mick]

high treason, could you back up those assertions with some facts? particularly:

FACT "Sustainable Development" is a euphamism for a viable long term human population of 500 million.

How on earth can you claim that as a "fact"? You think the Georgia Guidestones is somehow official UN policy? Most UN population control discussions talk about stabilizing at around 10 billion.

[MikeC]

If these are all factual then you should be able to provide the links that show that to be the case - so how about it?

Here's a hint - Bob Brown is no longer a leader of the Australian Green party...

[hemi]

FACT Maurice Strong, a known Socialist has (and still is) highly influential in the UN.

I really like that one. As if being a socialist is somehow inherently evil.

[MikeC]

FACT Real science can NEVER be settled. What rubbish for the relatively new science of climate science, with all its variables, to come out and declare "the science is settled" and refuse to debate the science. REAL science is about poking holes in theories- few theories survive the test of time. Just ONE significant error in the data, modelling or methodology and the theory cannot be regarded as the truth. You do have to get just a little bit suspicious when dissenting views are shouted down and personal attacks employed against those who do not tow the line on AGW.

Yeah - that's why Einstein got the theory of relativity to the top of the ladder - 'cos he was shouted down and destroyed by personal attacks....

this is a common cry of the anti-science movement - "they are only theories", "Science is never right because there is always something new that will come along and change things", etc.

It shows a profound ignorance about what it is that science actually is and about what a theory is.

ther is no refusal to debate actual climate change science - that is REAL science - ideas backed up by data and obbservation and that are testable and falsefiable. There is a refusal to debate rubbish that some people simply refuse to let go of. That that is good science!

[Joe]

Local meeting Tuesday to defeat Seven50 or Agenda 21 http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/dec/...nts_id=1018351

[Joe]

Local meeting Tuesday to defeat Seven50 or Agenda 21 http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/dec/...nts_id=1018351

It went down in flames today . No longer seven counties now six . next we go for Martin County and make it 5 .

[Mick]

Well, I can't say I support that. I think sustainability is a good thing, and not part of a conspiracy. Still, public debate is an important part of a working society.

[MikeC]

Is that you don't want development to be sustainable, or is it that you do not want development at all?

[Joe]

Is that you don't want development to be sustainable, or is it that you do not want development at all?

No we as a small county want to sustain ourselves . What it is really all about is money and lots of it . Problem is that the credit card is maxed out . We have nothing in common with the other counties like Miami Dade Palm Beach ect . We are small rural citrus producing county . We like to keep iit that way .

[Joe]

Well, I can't say I support that. I think sustainability is a good thing, and not part of a conspiracy. Still, public debate is an important part of a working society.

Sure sustainability is a good thing . When we control it . It is all about MONEY and lining their pockets as was expressed in the corruption and waste of 1 Million dollars . With no results .

[MikeC]

So if having it controlled by the counties is not acceptable, just how would you control it?

[MikeC]

No we as a small county want to sustain ourselves . What it is really all about is money and lots of it . Problem is that the credit card is maxed out . We have nothing in common with the other counties like Miami Dade Palm Beach ect . We are small rural citrus producing county . We like to keep iit that way .

however you are adjacent to each other, and at least to some extent what one does can affect the others.

How should that be handled?

[Joe]

however you are adjacent to each other, and at least to some extent what one does can affect the others.

How should that be handled?

They still have a regional planning council . Thats shoud be enough .

[Joe]

So if having it controlled by the counties is not acceptable, just how would you control it?

Control by our own elected county officials within our county . as we have done for 90 years the reson why our county was created in the first place .

[MikeC]

So you dont' see any place for cross-county-border activities or co-ordination??

[MikeC]

They still have a regional planning council . Thats shoud be enough .

I'm confused - are you saying if the regional council did the same stuff that would be OK?

[Joe]

I'm confused - are you saying if the regional council did the same stuff that would be OK?

No not really for me , but the seven50 was just another planning council backed by the EPA HUD and DOT . http://www.cnu20.org/ this is also what they belong to

[MikeC]

I can certainly underastand not wanting "yet another layer of bureaucracy/govt" - but that's as slightly different issue of Agenda 21 as a plan for depopulation and One-world-Govt isn't it??

[Joe]

I can certainly underastand not wanting "yet another layer of bureaucracy/govt" - but that's as slightly different issue of Agenda 21 as a plan for depopulation and One-world-Govt isn't it??

I never said it was agenda 21 even though it seems like the same thing , But it is for global governance . Notice the website for the CNU20 posted above it does say the new World ?

[MikeC]

I never said it was agenda 21

Err..not to put too fine a point on it, yes you did!!

Local meeting Tuesday to defeat Seven50 or Agenda 21 http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2012/dec/...nts_id=1018351

even though it seems like the same thing , But it is for global governance . Notice the website for the CNU20 posted above it does say the new World ?

Seriously??

My local supermarket is "New World" (as are many others around New Zealand - it is a national chain!), and if you live in America you are in the "New World" ....please - this was quite a reasonable discussion until you mentioned that...

[Trigger Hippie]

I never said it was agenda 21

You've been saying seven50 is Agenda 21 for quite some time. Here's what you posted in another thread a few months ago.

I just got back from the Seven50 road show as they call it . more like a dog and pony show . I got 3 out of 5 commisioners against it . But they have been already implaminting it . Social equeity . Its links thru ICLEI right to Agenda 21 . Another conspiracy coming true right before our eyes .

and this...

Notice of Important Meeting on Agenda 21

Protect our private property rights without the interference of an unelected regional governmental entity. The Southeast Florida Propsperity Partnership has recieved a federal grant to create a 50 year regional plan which is going by the name of Seven50, Southeast Florida's Prosperity Plan. There is a Public work groups session for Seven50 being held at the Indian River County Commision Chambers on October 25 from 8:30 am to 12:30 pm that should be opposed by all who love liberty and prosperity. The $4,250,000.00 funding for Seven50, Southeast Florida's Prosperity Plan, is coming from a grant from the Department of Housing and Urban Development Sustainable Communities Regional Planning grant, which is part of President Obama's Partnership for Sustainable Communities. Although Agenda 21 is not mentioned in the President's Partnership for Sustainable Communities, it's goals align with the goals of Agenda 21.

and this...

Its called Seven50 here . seven counties 50 years of sustainable development . they can change the name all they want if it walks like a duck it is a duck . http://seven50.org/

You're delivering a confusing message here. Perhaps you want to reiterate your thoughts on how Seven50 is connected to Agenda 21, ICLEI, sovereignty, UN, depopulation, property rights and soylent green?

[Joe]

Whatever , seven 50 is a stepping stone to agenda 21 . they may not be the same but are connected like ICLEI .

[Joe]

http://library.constantcontact.com/d....DOVER+LTR.pdf

[STORM NORMIN]

laziness and ignorance steals freedom so how much do you have invested in that fruit basket of knowledge i dont have a big degree but i do feel the enviromentel vice squeezing the life out of my fellow americans so i guess ive came to collective agreement and concluded you got sold out by bad education a product of agenda 21 i dont know what you do for a living but im willing to bet you dont own a sucesfull bussines or have many hobbies besides setting in your undies spreading ignorane and stealing freedom TRUTH KEEPS PEPOLE FREEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Unregistered]

I think that many of the "the few" want to raise oil profits, and they take actions towards that end. They do not do these things entirely in isolation. They often talk to each other. This all rises past the lowest dictionary level of conspiracy, and in some cases it likely rises to the level of "an unlawful plan by two or more persons, hatched in secret".

I think also there are many people who want society to be less oil dependent. They to take actions towards this goal. They often talk to each other. Some of them conspire at various dictionary levels.

I think it's a mistake to talk about "a conspiracy", as the world is not comprise of "them" vs. "us", or even a few groups. The world, and the world's elites, are comprise of individuals. Individuals do "conspire". I conspire, you conspire, they conspire, we all conspire.

So to ask if there's conspiracy to raise oil profits, or decrease the incidence of cancer, or sell more whiskey, of win a game of football, or have less dolphins caught in nets, or stay in power, - that's redundant. If there's anything in the world that people want, then it's a natural and expected consequence that they will take actions to further their goal, and they will talk with people who share that same goal (or mutually beneficial goals), and they will not tell those opposed to that goal what is happening.

It's far more productive to talk about specific actions. What happened? Why might it have happened? Is it illegal? Is it immoral? Is there something people should know about? Is there something claimed that is wrong? Is there information missing?

Why did Ken Cohen write that article? Was it because that's what he believes? Was it a natural part of his job as an industry avocate? Was it part of a decades long plan to turn North America into a wildlife refuge? I think it's just a company doing business, adding normal spin to further its goals.

All lobbyists are paid for their services. When that pay comes from OPEC (to kill a pipeline), I have to call it nefarious and undoubtedly separate from any environmental concerns. When the same professional lobbyist is retained in the employ of General Electric, I have to suspect collusion on the part of the "energy czar" who IS General Electric.

[Alhazred The Sane]

The difference being that oil and gas is run by the largest corporations in the world, with access to funds we can barely conceive, who already spend more on lobbying than most nations' GDP. I've yet to see any evidence that the environmental lobby has anything close to their power, influence or capital.

This was a reply to the poster who said those who don't believe in the A21 conspiracy are willing to believe that the oil and gas industry has an agenda, yet unwilling to believe that environmentalist (sic) have an agenda. Or something like that. I'll remember to reply with quote next time around.

[MikeC]

Of course environmentalists ahve an agenda.

and if they do not have "the money" they do have a very good product to "sell" - who doesn't want the earth to be free of pollution, reefs to not die, water to be clean, etc??

And do we not expect our elected officials and civil services such as the EPA, and yes the UN, to take into account public opinion?

so why do people think it is some sort of evil conspiracy when they DO EXACTLY THAT????

[lotek]

all this bs aside, i will never understand why people think population control is bad? 500m was a stable number for along time, max natural capacity is est to be 2.3b. it should be EVERYONE'S goal to reduce population. just dont procreate. i wont. for it is what i owe the earth. we need a few hundred years where only 1 out of 8 ppl reproduce. or we will all die. i dont see the problem. it shouldnt have to be a secret program blah blah. you all should just do it.

i dont see logic in thinking the planet can deal with unlimited growth. all exponential systems fail.

if you dont want a need for population control, invest in space colonies. or stop giving disaster/hunger aid and convince people that medicine is a hoax to turn profit so everyone stops using medial care and we return to plauge era population levels?

sure noone wants to see a gatica style future but i doubt we can trust peopel to do the right thing and not reproduce.

[BlueCollarCritic]

all this bs aside, i will never understand why people think population control is bad? 500m was a stable number for along time, max natural capacity is est to be 2.3b. it should be EVERYONE'S goal to reduce population. just dont procreate. i wont. for it is what i owe the earth. we need a few hundred years where only 1 out of 8 ppl reproduce. or we will all die. i dont see the problem. it shouldnt have to be a secret program blah blah. you all should just do it.

i dont see logic in thinking the planet can deal with unlimited growth. all exponential systems fail.

if you dont want a need for population control, invest in space colonies. or stop giving disaster/hunger aid and convince people that medicine is a hoax to turn profit so everyone stops using medial care and we return to plauge era population levels?

sure noone wants to see a gatica style future but i doubt we can trust peopel to do the right thing and not reproduce.

Population Control is a bad idea because it became a tool of oppression, a justifiable excuse for imposing tyranny on the many by the few. It’s already been debunked that there is no population explosion and yet people from all walks of life, from hi intellectual back grounds down to the simplest child are all still pushing the idea that the Earths populat6ion is out of control.

[SR1419]

It’s already been debunked that there is no population explosion

It has?

Can you expound on that

[jvnk08]

I find the opposition to A21 kind of amusing myself. The fervor of A21-phobia might maim/kill it off, but it will be resurrected in pieces as people realize that the vast, vast majority of it is common sense.

Population Control is a bad idea because it became a tool of oppression, a justifiable excuse for imposing tyranny on the many by the few. It’s already been debunked that there is no population explosion and yet people from all walks of life, from hi intellectual back grounds down to the simplest child are all still pushing the idea that the Earths populat6ion is out of control.

....the Earth's Human population is exploding without a doubt. When they say "population control" it doesn't mean eugenics e.g. killing people off - it means encouraging smaller family sizes. There is a direct correlation between smaller family sizes and living standards. Play around with this data and see for yourself(try Life Expectancy vs. Children per Woman for example).


Or watch this video:

[BlueCollarCritic]

I find the opposition to A21 kind of amusing myself. The fervor of A21-phobia might maim/kill it off, but it will be resurrected in pieces as people realize that the vast, vast majority of it is common sense.




....the Earth's Human population is exploding without a doubt. When they say "population control" it doesn't mean eugenics e.g. killing people off - it means encouraging smaller family sizes. There is a direct correlation between smaller family sizes and living standards. Play around with this data and see for yourself(try Life Expectancy vs. Children per Woman for example).


Or watch this video:

NO. Population control means exactly what it says, controling the population. Perhaps you meant "population ghrowth control"? Even then its still wrong. I believe what you are searching for is planned population growth. Thats where plans are made for population growth. This similiar to when a married couple plan to have kids and s they start to save and make plans for bring children into this workd and raisning them. Thats planned population growth. When contries like China encat lawws that say you can have 1 child and 1 child only per couple that is control over population growth.

BTW - The idea that the Eartsh population is exploding is a debunked conspiracy theory and yet we still have many seeming reasonable thinking people buying into the overpopulation myth.

[BlueCollarCritic]

It has?

Can you expound on that

Yes, yes I can... http://overpopulationisamyth.com/
Check and chekmate.


What I don't get is how those eople who know that overpopulatin is a mayth and that those pushing it the myth are worng at best and liars at worse, will still believe those same people when they say that AGENDA 21 is really justa a suggestin for sustainable growth. I guess HItlers eugenics was just a recomendation on how to imrpiove your genetics. Its all word play and manipulation.

[jvnk08]

The idea that the Eartsh population is exploding is a debunked conspiracy theory and yet we still have many seeming reasonable thinking people buying into the overpopulation myth.

When contries like China encat lawws that say you can have 1 child and 1 child only per couple that is control over population growth.

Mkay.

I guess the Chinese government just hate kids and don't want any more of them running around on their lawn.

Yes, yes I can... http://overpopulationisamyth.com/
Check and chekmate.


What I don't get is how those eople who know that overpopulatin is a mayth and that those pushing it the myth are worng at best and liars at worse, will still believe those same people when they say that AGENDA 21 is really justa a suggestin for sustainable growth. I guess HItlers eugenics was just a recomendation on how to imrpiove your genetics. Its all word play and manipulation.

"Overpopulationisamyth.com" is surely a credible website. The fact their domain name clearly states the purpose of the site gives them +100 credibility points.

Nevermind the fact that you are neglecting the exponential property of population growth, further intensified in a species such as our own where natural selection largely no longer applies. It's simple math that dictates this. You really need to get out more if you think there is not an overcrowding issue in the world. Population control doesn't mean kill people off, it means advocate for smaller family sizes. As I demonstrated above, there is a direct link between smaller family sizes and quality of life.



Regarding China, have a read: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100395141/In_...ming_to_An_End

[Joe]

Yes, yes I can... http://overpopulationisamyth.com/
Check and chekmate.


What I don't get is how those eople who know that overpopulatin is a mayth and that those pushing it the myth are worng at best and liars at worse, will still believe those same people when they say that AGENDA 21 is really justa a suggestin for sustainable growth. I guess HItlers eugenics was just a recomendation on how to imrpiove your genetics. Its all word play and manipulation.

Wasnt Hilters eugenics it was the American progressives that started eugenics . After the eugenics movement was well established in the United States, it was spread to Germany. California eugenicists began producing literature promoting eugenics and sterilization and sending it overseas to German scientists and medical professionals. By 1933, California had subjected more people to forceful sterilization than all other U.S. states combined. The forced sterilization program engineered by the Nazis was partly inspired by California's].
The Rockefeller Foundation helped develop and fund various German eugenics programs, including the one that Josef Mengele worked in before he went to Auschwitz. They say we can fit all the people in the world comfortably in Texas