Debunked: Fluoride and Alzheimers

[Mick]

Cases of Alzheimer's are on the rise. The Alzheimer's associations says:

Content from external source

The number of Americans with Alzheimer’s and other dementias is increasing every year because of the steady growth in the older
population. This number will continue to increase and escalate rapidly in the coming years as the baby boom generation ages.

So there's more old people, so more Alzheimer's. Also, as we make strides in other causes of deaths, like heart disease and cancer, the less people die of those, and more people die of Alzheimer's for which there are no good treatments.

Some people have suggested that water fluoridation might be linked to Alzheimer's. Tehy generally fail to realize that water fluoridation is a local thing, and many communities do NOT have water fluoridation. Look at the distribution here:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/ppt/hp2010/f..._oral2_ppt.htm



Note that California has under 50% of its residents with fluoridated water. Texas has over 75%. So if fluoride was related, you'd expect to find higher rates of Alzheimer's in Texas.

From the Alzheimer's association statewide figures.

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_diseas...nd_figures.asp

State	Population	Cases	Deaths	Cases/1000 pop	Death/1000 pop
CA	37691000	480000	8497	12.7	0.225
TX	25674000	340000	4814	13.2	0.187

So despite having a 50% higher rate of fluoridation, Texas has only a slightly higher ratio of cases of Alzheimers as California, and a MUCH lower ratio of deaths. The difference most likely being to age demographics.

This lack of correlation of fluoridation with cases of Alzheimers indicates is not a significant factor.

[Unregistered]

Just to point something out, you can't correlate Alzheimer's with communities that do or do not fluoridate because packaged and processed foods, soft drinks, juices, etc. are shipped all over the nation. If they are manufactured at a plant where the water is fluoridated, then those products are also fluoridated so that even people living in unfluoridated communities are still ingesting measurable quantities of fluoride. Furthermore, you are comparing Califormia and Texas, both of which have substantial fluoridation. Even though California has less fluoridation than Texas, it may be that the lesser amount is still enough to set the stage for Alzheimer's, i.e., you've reached the saturation point for Alzheimer's incidence and adding even more fluoride in Texas won't increase the incidence any more. A more interesting correlation would be if we could see a difference in incidence between fluoridated countries and other Western countries that have never fluroidated...

[Mick]

But there's still a significant difference between California and Texas. Texas has about twice as much water fluoridation. If there was any connection, then it would show up in the incidence rates.

You can't claim there is a tipping point, as fluoridation is either on or off when it comes to the water supply. California does not have less fluoride, it has less people who get fluoridated water. Hence if fluoridated water had any effect on Alzheimer's, then it would should up in the statistics.

[Unregistered]

Not everyone gets Alzheimer's, and if fluoridation is linked to Alzheminer's, then still not everyone who consumes fluoride will get Alzheimer's either. There is a genetic predisposition to developing Alzheimer's, and what I'm saying is that we may have already tapped that predisposed population. Also, just because there are less fluoridated communities in California does not mean that people in California are exposed to less than the possible tipping point of fluoride. Some communities may get less total exposure to fluoride but they are still not fluoride-free since it is in all processed and packaged foods distrbuted across the nation, not to mention toothpastes, mouthwashes, etc. For the past 60 years the recommended fluoridation rate has hovered around 1 ppm - that's 1 mg/l of fluoride in our drinking water. But then we also consume foods processed with fluoridated water and that is not accounted for. I don't know what the tipping point for Alzheimer's could be, but what if it was only 0.5 ppm? Assuming even people in non-fluoridated communities still take in the equivalent of 0.5 ppm in their foods, toothpastes, etc., then we would not expect any higher incidence of Alzheimer's in fluoridated communities becuase both sets have already passed the threshold for symptoms. (BTW, you're right - fluoride is either on or off in the water supply - but that does not tell how much fluoride any particular person consumes. At 1 ppm, or 1 mg/liter, if someone only drinks 1 liter of water per day, then they consume 1 mg of fluoride per day. But if someone else drinks 2 liters of water per day, then they consume 2 mg of fluoride per day, and so on. It's not possible to say everyone in a fluoridated community is consuming the same amount of fluoride.)

Look up fluoride in your periodic table - it is the most reactive of ALL elements. It combines with aluminum to make aluminum fluoride. Aluminum would not normally be able to cross the blood-brain barrier, but when combined with fluoride it does. They have found large deposits of aluminum in Alzheimer's patients brains, and that's why fluoride is being looked at as the possible Trojan horse that carries it in there. Again, I'd like to see the Alzheimer's incidence in countries which have never fluoridated, and compare that to the U.S. At least across different countries there's much less chance of fluoride's "halo effect" reaching out to non-fluoridated communities.

[Mick]

Try these.

http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/c...ia/by-country/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country

Of course it's hard to pick a correlation out with so many confounding factors. It's also easy to cherry pick say, Japan (no F, low A). or Finland (only one town with F, but the highest A in the world). Sweden and Norway are similar to Finland. .

[Unregistered]

Agreed - there are too many confounding factors to see any correlation. It does look like Alzheimer's is largely a Westernized disease, though. So is that because we're living longer in Westernized countries, or is it because of our Western diet and lifestlyes... Regardless of whether Alzheimers and fluoride are linked, I still put forward that it is never a good idea to dispose of toxic waste by dilution into the water supply - it just doesn't make any sense.

[Stupid]

So many ailments seem to be more common to "western" or technologically advanced (TA) cultures.
Is it possible that these TA cultures have the means to diagnose (and label) these ailments, giving the reporting of them more frequency.

[IWantToBelieve]

So... is this theory still considered debunked?

[IWantToBelieve]

So with that said, is this still considered debunked?

I posted this earlier but do not see it anywhere.

[Mick]

It's debunking in that there seems to be no correlation between Fluoride use and Alzheimer's.

[Jay Reynolds]

It does look like Alzheimer's is largely a Westernized disease, though. So is that because we're living longer in Westernized countries, or is it because of our Western diet and lifestlyes... Regardless of whether Alzheimers and fluoride are linked, I still put forward that it is never a good idea to dispose of toxic waste by dilution into the water supply - it just doesn't make any sense.

Sometimes things don't make sense to an observer because he believes things which are not true.
Then again, sometimes things don't make sense to an observer who is not aware of the facts of the matter.
Usually, by the time an observer becomes fully aware of the true facts of a matter, things start to make sense.

[IWantToBelieve]

Sometimes things don't make sense to an observer because he believes things which are not true.
Then again, sometimes things don't make sense to an observer who is not aware of the facts of the matter.
Usually, by the time an observer becomes fully aware of the true facts of a matter, things start to make sense.

Sometimes things don't make sense to an observer because he believes things which are not true.
Then again, sometimes things don't make sense to an observer who is not aware of the facts of the matter.
Usually, by the time an observer becomes fully aware of the true facts of a matter, things start to make sense.

Or sometimes the observer sticks to his original assertion and manipulates the data to fit what he once believed was true. And so this site exists!

[Jay Reynolds]

That person isn't being very honest. That sort of thing will catch up to them in the long run.

[PCWilliams]

But there's still a significant difference between California and Texas. Texas has about twice as much water fluoridation. If there was any connection, then it would show up in the incidence rates.

You can't claim there is a tipping point, as fluoridation is either on or off when it comes to the water supply. California does not have less fluoride, it has less people who get fluoridated water. Hence if fluoridated water had any effect on Alzheimer's, then it would should up in the statistics.

I would think you would see more cases of fluoride-induced problems in the warmer states where, presumably, more water is ingested because of the warmer climate.

P.S. Have we discussed other fluoride myths? Like, fluoride lowers IQ?

[Charlie Primero]

Note that California has under 50% of its residents with fluoridated water. Texas has over 75%. So if fluoride was related, you'd expect to find higher rates of Alzheimer's in Texas.

Average life expectancy in high fluoridation Texas is 78 years, while in low fluoridation California it's 80 years.

As with your lack of Alzheimer's, here the data clearly demonstrate that fluoridation reduces life expectancy.

[Mick]

Average life expectancy in high fluoridation Texas is 78 years, while in low fluoridation California it's 80 years.

As with your lack of Alzheimer's, here the data clearly demonstrate that fluoridation reduces life expectancy.

Unless you look at Mississippi, which has low fluoridation, but also the lowest life expectancy in the US.

Flouridation (darker = more)


Life Expectency (darker = longer)

[Charlie Primero]

Some people have suggested that water fluoridation might be linked to Alzheimer's.

I'm sorry Mick, I was joking about the correlation/causation fallacy of this by linking it to Life Expectancy. I should have linked flouridation to UFO sightings or something.

[Mick]

I know, I saw your smiley I just forgot to add my own.

[Mick]

This reminds me of the "Morgellons is most common in Texas, Florida, and California" thing. When that's just were most people live - the ultimate confounding factor.

http://morgellonswatch.com/2006/05/20/border-disease/

[PCWilliams]

From the CDC: 75 Years of Mortality in the United States, 1935–2010

Attachment 635

The Key Findings in the associated PDF file says, "… the age adjusted risk of dying dropped 60 percent from 1935 to 2010" and "The risk of dying decreased for all age groups but was greater for younger age groups with a 94 percent reduction in death rates at 1–4 years compared with a 38 percent decline at 85 years or more."

When was fluoride first used? 1945? I think it became widespread around 1962. I'm not sure how we could have such a dramatic drop in the mortality rate when fluoride has been poisoning people for AT LEAST the last 50 years.

[PCWilliams]

I broke out my excel spreadsheet and i entered life expectancy and percent of the population drinking fluorinated water for each of the 50 states, plus the District of Columbia, for the year 2009. This is what it looks like:

Attachment 636

The correlation is crystal clear.

[Mick]

Nice. Maybe you could scale life expectancy to ((life - 75) * 10 ) to make the confusion more apparent.

[Scorp3j]

Water fluoridation has significantly decreased tooth decay in the U.S. for the last 65 years. It creates low levels of fluoride in saliva, which reduces the rate at which tooth enamel demineralizes and increases the rate at which it remineralizes in the early stages of cavities. And while recommended levels of fluoride in tap water range from 0.5 to 1.0 mg/L (milligrams per litre depending on climate, bottled water typically has unknown fluoride levels.
The National Academy of Sciences, the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, the American Medical Association, the World Health Organization, the American Cancer Society, the American Dental Association, the British Royal College of Physicians, the Royal Statistical Society, investigators at Oxford University, and every United States Surgeon General for the past 45 years have all endorsed water fluoridation. And the U.S. Centers for Disease Control included water fluoridation among its list of the ten great public health achievements of the 20th century. Further, after 65 years of use, we’ve yet to see any signs that we’re all being poisoned en mass by our tap water, and millions of sudden poison deaths are not the sort of thing that’s likely to go unnoticed.
http://skepacabra.wordpress.com/2011...-fluoridation/

[PCWilliams]

Nice. Maybe you could scale life expectancy to ((life - 75) * 10 ) to make the confusion more apparent.

I haven't had to use excel in many years, i wanted to add a second Y axis. If i can figure out how to make a second Y axis for the age i will do as you suggest. It would certainly highlight the non-correlation.

[GREECE]

Nice. Maybe you could scale life expectancy to ((life - 75) * 10 ) to make the confusion more apparent.

Well ... there are news about flouride and they are NO GOOD NEWS from HARVARD

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/fea...jean-choi.html

Do you really believe that a government that steals its people (through wars, and Lehman Boys who doubled the public debt) ... can have a minimum honest concern about public health even in terms of large scale economy.

Flouride deliverd to rats provoked Alzheimer symptoms but they avoid to check the same in humans for obvious reasons.

They plan to put Lithium in water and they will do it with proud.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...ide-rates.html

[haarp]

Water fluoridation has significantly decreased tooth decay in the U.S. for the last 65 years. It creates low levels of fluoride in saliva, which reduces the rate at which tooth enamel demineralizes and increases the rate at which it remineralizes in the early stages of cavities. And while recommended levels of fluoride in tap water range from 0.5 to 1.0 mg/L (milligrams per litre depending on climate, bottled water typically has unknown fluoride levels.
The National Academy of Sciences, the National Heart, Lung and Blood Institute, the American Medical Association, the World Health Organization, the American Cancer Society, the American Dental Association, the British Royal College of Physicians, the Royal Statistical Society, investigators at Oxford University, and every United States Surgeon General for the past 45 years have all endorsed water fluoridation. And the U.S. Centers for Disease Control included water fluoridation among its list of the ten great public health achievements of the 20th century. Further, after 65 years of use, we’ve yet to see any signs that we’re all being poisoned en mass by our tap water, and millions of sudden poison deaths are not the sort of thing that’s likely to go unnoticed.
http://skepacabra.wordpress.com/2011...-fluoridation/

There are ways to remineralize teeth and even reverse decay, have a gander through the wealth of information on this forum http://community.curetoothdecay.com/cavities

[Plautus Satire]

Water fluoridation has significantly decreased tooth decay in the U.S. for the last 65 years.

No, it hasn't. If you want to ingest the stuff, feel free, just don't try to dope all our drinking water with it.

[MikeC]

Well ... there are news about flouride and they are NO GOOD NEWS from HARVARD

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/fea...jean-choi.html

Perhaps you missed this bit of that article:

Content from external source:

The researchers conducted a systematic review of studies, almost all of which are from China where risks from fluoride are well-established. Fluoride is a naturally occurring substance in groundwater, and exposures to the chemical are increased in some parts of China.

ie teh fluoride in the water is actually natural.....and also at much higher levels than that which is achieved where fluoride IS added to water.

Flouride deliverd to rats provoked Alzheimer symptoms but they avoid to check the same in humans for obvious reasons.

Again that requires extremely high levels - well above those that are found naturally in water or achieved artificially - as much as 75-125 times as much and 100 times