And clearly anyone can recognize that the popular "ceiling cat is watching you" meme is simply cover to desensitize people to the fact that some cats watch you all the time now, unlike normal cats.
Fact: No photos exist prior to 1997 of cats watching anyone.
Fact: I don't remember ever being watched by a cat before 2003. Cat's sleep, eat, or walk away. That's all they do.
Robocat - does this look normal?
Need I continue?
Last edited by Mick; March 11th, 2012 at 03:29 PM.
Well, he also wanted to dig the panama canal and drill for oil with nuclear explosions.
I think he would recognize the need to actually look into the "why not do that" before actually doing it. Like he says "we ought to study ways to offset any possible ill effects."
So he's talking about studying, not doing.
Just like all the thousands of other scientists.
Last edited by Mick; March 11th, 2012 at 03:37 PM.
When does an idea get implemented. . . .? When there is a need or crisis . . If it is considered a reasonable solution by influential and trusted people, if people have the money and method to accomplish the project. . . And if there has been enough time between the idea and the implementation. . . By-The -Way, I never saw Teller discussed Robotic Cats. . . .Originally Posted by Mick
http://www.hoover.org/publications/h...t/article/6791
In 1979, physicist Freeman Dyson, in his characteristically prescient manner, proposed the deliberate, large-scale introduction of such fine particles into the upper atmosphere to offset global warming, which he thought even then would eventually become a human concern. Some of my colleagues and I have recently surveyed the current technological prospects for such an introduction. We estimated the costs involved and presented our results last August at the Twenty-second International Seminar on Planetary Emergencies. The most expensive such "geoengineering" option appears to be the one long ago proposed by Mr. Dyson, which may cost as much as $1 billion a year. More technologically advanced options along the same lines might cost $100 million.
That's between 0.1 and 1.0 percent of the $100 billion a year it is estimated would be required to price-ration fossil fuel usage back down to 1990 levels in the United States alone. As the National Academy of Sciences commented a few years ago in a landmark report,
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
So those discussions. . . .which are possible and could work . . .disqualifies this Man's credibility or his years of conceptualized, designed and implemented work product. . . . The cofounder of Lawrence Livermore Laboratories . . . is a respected individual. . . Much of what he did say was turned into reality . . . Even if it was years before we knew about it. . . .
This man's work was primarily done in secrecy . . . He knew how to operate within the covert world as well as the public world and knew what could be discussed publicaly and what needed to be done in secret. . . The Manhattan Project is a living example of those issues. . .
Last edited by George B; March 11th, 2012 at 04:49 PM.
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
What? And how is it any worse than you assuming everything that you consider evidence?
You are the only one arguing that - I am stating as a matter of fact and public record that there is no such level of concern...yet.1) There have been several statements of concern regarding the effects of persistent contrails and contrail induced cirrus cloud banks especially as they relate to the future projections. . . . We are arguing about whether they have reached the level in the scientific community that would influence policy makers. . . .
If you have seen classified material on the effect of contrail induced climate change then why not release it - why are you hiding it?2) Policy makers are not simply influenced by published Studies . . . They are influenced by classified information not available to the public. . . And we do not know what that is. . . I guarantee such information exists. . . . Many high level briefs I received while on active duty included both. . . .
If you are saying that politicians see secret material in general then that's pretty much a trivial point.
Do you know of any of it that actually relates to the case in point? I suspect you are just making a general statement of no particular relevance, because that is your modis operandi - making highly generalised statements that you would like to apply to chemtrails, but which in fact apply to almost anything.
and why haven't you told us anything about this "new species" of contrail from high bypass ration engines? I believe it is because you are simply throwing any old claim out here with no intention whatsoever to provide any evidence, nor even to provide cogent thoughts as to how it might be so.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
No, they simply say that A) because someone suggested doing something does not mean it is being done. B) They might not be aware of all the potential problems. C) People think about all kinds of things all the time that sound like a good idea.
And that's ignore the biggest objection - there's no actual evidence of it being done.
Seems the existence of multiple research projects to study how persistent contrails form and cirrus cloud banks are induced and mitigation schemes are evidence of concern. . . .
Ninth USA/Europe Air Traffic Management Research and Development Seminar (ATM2011)
Design of Aircraft Trajectories based on
Trade-offs between Emission Sources
BanavarSridhar and Neil Y. Chen Hok K. Ng
NASA Ames Research Center University of California
MoffettField, CA, USA Santa Cruz, CA, USA
FlorianLinke
DLR-GermanAerospace Center
Hamburg,Germany
http://www.aviationsystemsdivision.a...11_Sridhar.pdf
Abstract – Aviation operations affect theclimate in several
ways. Carbon dioxide, water vaporand other greenhouse
gasses are unavoidable by-productof the combustion of
fossil fuel. There are indications that persistent contrails
can lead to adverse climate change, although the complete
effect on climate forcing is stilluncertain. A flight
trajectory optimization algorithm with fuel and contrails
models, which develops alternativeflight paths, provides
policy makers the necessary datato make trade-offs
between persistent contrails mitigationand aircraft fuel
consumption. This study developsan algorithm that
calculates wind-optimaltrajectories for cruising aircraft
while reducing the amount of timespent in regions of
airspace prone to persistent contrails formation. The
optimal trajectories are developedby solving a non-linear
optimal control problem with path constraints. The
regions of airspace favorable topersistent contrails
formation are modeled as penaltyareas that aircraft
should avoid. The trade-offbetween persistent contrails
formation and additional fuel consumption is investigated
for 12 city-pairs in the continental United States. The
avoidance of contrails using only horizontal maneuvers
results in a small reduction of contrails with increasing
fuel consumption. When both horizontal maneuvers and
altitude are optimized, a 2% increase in total fuel
consumption can reduce the total travel times through
contrail regions by more than 70%. Allowing further
increase in fuel consumption does not seem to result in
proportionate reduction in contrail travel times. This
trend is maintained even in thepresence of uncertainties
in the contrail formation regionssuch as uncertainties in
relative humidity values computedby weather forecast
models.
Last edited by George B; March 11th, 2012 at 05:13 PM.
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Thousands of studies of mitigating asteroids hitting the earth are also evidence of concern.
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl..._ylo=&as_vis=0
But nobody has done anything about it. The concern IN GOVERNMENT does not seem to have risen to the level where action would be taken beyond studying the problem.
Unless they are doing it in secret. But there's no way of knowing, as there's no evidence.
Same thing with contrails.
Oh, and, Edward Teller was a HUGE advocate of asteroid defense, and doing it openly.
http://impact.arc.nasa.gov/news_detail.cfm?ID=129
“Our actions should be widely publicized and explained, with secrecy restrictions abolished as completely and rapidly as possible. This principle holds particularly for issues associated with the use of nuclear energy…. All parts of the world are equally at risk from impacts, and we all share a common interest in our self-protection from such cosmic catastrophes. One of us (E.T.) urges that experimentation should not be delayed except for strong reasons, since procedures for protection need to be decided on the basis of data on comets and asteroids, part of which can be obtained only through experimentation.”
Last edited by Mick; March 11th, 2012 at 05:23 PM.
Trigger Hippie (March 11th, 2012)
clearly not enough to actually do anything - just to look at he possibilities "once over lightly" - thus completely debunking your point and reinforcing mine.
Well done - yet another example of you not understanding what you are reading
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Not that the lack of evidence will deter a conspiracy theorist.
As reasonable inference is rejected by individuals obsessed with only readily available validated and measured data who will be dead three days before they collect enough empirical evidence to prove to themselves they are truly dead. . . .
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Reasonable inference is not rejected.
But reasonable inference needs to have a reasonable connection between its points. Reasonable inferences should also not completely dismiss well known points which aer much better linked to the observable data.
Validated and measured data is not required - it is the best data to have of course - but if is not actually available then it is certainly still possible to make "reasonable inferences".
You make no such "reasonable" inferences - your supporting points are either totally general, or completely irrelevant (often because you do not understand the references you are giving) - we've got hundreds of posts showing your inability to make "reasonable" inferences.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Spongebob (March 11th, 2012)
It is a general statement in how the system really works. . . I know you think that is not relevant, yet, I am sure others might feel otherwise . . . there are and will always be data, projects, and systems with held from public disclosure. . . .Why .?? . . .National Security Issues. . . . So we have what
1) Motive
2) Organization
3) History
4) Concept of operation from the greatest scientific thinkers of this era
5) Money & manpower
6) System to cover covert operations . . .
7) Technology & infrastructure
8) Time
9) Deniability. . . Natural explanations for all discoverable evidence of operations
10) International Treaties and Laws or the lack thereof limiting detection, exposure and liability
11) Opportunity
What do we lack. . . . Concrete measurable validated data proving an activity very difficult to observe and isolate from background noise and normal human and natural activities. . . .
Last edited by George B; March 11th, 2012 at 07:44 PM.
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
This is where we part company . . . I think it is very rational to believe there are contingencies and technologies (possibly weapons) in place to deflect or destroy small but deadly astroid type bodies. . . .if this is not true then the DoD is not doing their job. . . .just because this is not public knowledge does not remove this as a rational position. . . .
A common philosophy which is often verbalized . . . "Go ahead and do what is necessary and ask for forgiveness later." . . This is what I expect . . .
Last edited by George B; March 11th, 2012 at 08:22 PM.
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Fixed for accuracy.
Again - There's not the slightest shred of evidence of any of this. Nothing physical in the aeroplanes, nothing measured anywhere, nobody from any secret organisation blowing the whistle, and no secret documents that have been released.
They are irrelevant to you because you choose to call them that . . .Simple . . . and since there are no impartial third party judges to determine the issue my opinion is just as valid as yours . . .
Last edited by George B; March 12th, 2012 at 03:27 AM.
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
What constitutes a whistleblower in your opinion.??? . . There are those who have come forward to share what they call inside information. . . Almost all whistleblowers in history have been attacked as liars, not qualified, delusional, frauds, hiding their identity, etc. until much later in the process of disclosure. . . .what motive would people have to lie about such bizarre information . . .?
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Because that's just one aspect of running an operation and the fact that none of the other aspects have surfaced still makes it fiction.
It's like the Bob Lazar Area 51 thing all over again; you can say what you like but without any proof it's just waffle.
It's also like the stuff that David Icke espouses - He can make up all the fanciful rubbish he likes and people soak it up even though there's precisely zero proof. I use to say he was a complete nutjob but I now realise he's a goddam genius - For very little work he's selling lots of books, doing paid tours, etc and doesn't have to prove a thing to make a lot of money.
Maybe that is a test of motive. . . do the whistleblowers benefit by making money from their disclosures. . . .are they publicity Seekers or just telling their information and disappearing from sight. . . .
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
lee h oswald (March 13th, 2012)
They are irrelevant when they have no relevance to the subject you are talking about. For example in this thread you have made several references to how contrails could be avoided - but that is completely irrelevant - there is no argument that contrails can be avoided - it is axiomatic and trivial.
And therefore completely irrelevant to whether or not there is a deliberate policy to not avoid them.
What IS relevant to a deliberate policy to not avoid contrails is discussion of actual POLICY!
Instead you waste time.
I notice you do not take issue with my comment that many of your supporting points are far too general to be of any use - that at least is progress!
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Spongebob (March 11th, 2012)
No. What you lack is any indication whatsoever that this is happening.
You argue as if it would somehow be very surprising that contrail mitigation is not happening.
But the only person who find it so is you. Sure you can find people who think we should mitigate contrails. But nobody else is astonished that we are not, and hence deducing that we are deliberately not doing it to cover up our geoengineering tests.
That's just you.
I thought this thread was closed for good reason?
1) I didn't start this Thread . . . It was started by MICK for me while I was busy elsewhere
2) Locking a Thread seems to be the normal behavior when the consensus of opinion here is when you, MIIK, tire of the debate. . . .or the direction in which it is going. . .
3) Since there is no third party impartial judge of how the Thread is progressing I have no voice in the outcome. . .
4) If you choose not to respond to me I understand the process . .. a Thread dies of its own lack of merit. . . To euthanize an active Thread seems silly. . . .either you or I will tire of the subject and move on
5) I would suggest the proper edict is to allow a Thread to fade into oblivion. . . .
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Must they state it in angry demonstrative language or just logical statement of fact. . . .???
http://www.mendeley.com/research/a-n...ntrail-cirrus/
Transportation Research Part D: Transport and Environment (2005)
Volume: 10, Issue: 5, Pages: 421-426
ISSN: 13619209
DOI: 10.1016/j.trd.2005.04.012
Available from linkinghub.elsevier.com
or Find this paper at:
Abstract
Aircraft induced cirrus clouds have a major effect on climate. Here we use operational radiosonde data with high vertical resolution to estimate the effect of a small change in flight altitudes on the contrail and cirrus formation. It is shown that a substantial fraction of contrails and contrail induced cirrus can be avoided by relatively small changes in flight level, due to the shallowness of ice-super-saturation layers.
Last edited by George B; March 12th, 2012 at 03:48 AM.
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Name one new thing that's been introduced in the last few weeks.
It's the same stuff over and over again.
Spongebob (March 12th, 2012)
I closed the other thread as it lacked focus. Debunking is about examining individual specific claims of evidence, or specific conclusions. The other thread was just vague implications.
This thread was an attempt to focus on "Is the non-mitigation of contrails a deliberate policy?", which was about the most specific individual claim I could get out of George.
But it keeps coming back to the same basic thing. George's intuition and experience tells him that something is going on. But nobody agree with him.
Seriously George. You need to look at what you are doing wrong. Your mountains of "facts" are unconvincing. Why are you having so much trouble getting your message across?
Noble1965 (March 12th, 2012)
That's because you were busy watching Fox and reading the Daily Mail.
You would think so. But ooh, you're in trouble brother. We've seen the robot cats, then it's the cross tone - but tell him how to run metamick and you're in it...whatever you do, don't mention the nazis
George B (March 12th, 2012)
Not enough belief in the wise teachings of David Icke you mean?
Lee:
Do you believe the Queen is a 7ft tall shape shifting reptilian ?
Doesn't everyone?
I was looking forward to you defending your position and having a ding dong with Mick - but it never happened for some reason - did your agent advise you against it? Maybe we can do it pay-per-view?
Don't be ridiculous. She's not that tall.
And of course she's shape shifting - she was hot in the 1940's - look at her now!!
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
HOT???!!!!!!
She`s the only one of the many accused who would benefit if it were true. UGH!
Just curious . . . have you had a hack at this particular study . . . ? Which I know was not peer reviewed . . . http://www.warmwell.com/tsepurdey.pdf
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
I have seen it before & wrote about it here - http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/...33#pid13401223
The claims about the sources of Barium, at least, are utterly unsupported by the documentation.
Specifically the claim that Barium is sprayed is made here:
References 60, 61& 62 are:Use of Ba ions in aerosol applications employed by the military and geophysical researchers
It should also be noted that aerosols containing the Ba ion – such as the ferroelectric Ba stearate or Ba
strontium titanate compounds [60,61] – are discharged along jet flight paths/low flight practise
areas and around munitions production/storage/guided missile testing facilities as a means of enhancing/
refracting ducting radio/radar signalling communications for maintaining a reliable measure
of security and rapid communication around the curvatures of the earth. Ba ions have also been
widely discharged into the atmosphere since the mid 1970s as a means of conducting geophysical
explorations of the ionosphere [62].
Thus any foodchain that is sited around these top security military locations, flight paths or beneath
these areas of ionospheric exploration, could find itself subjected to the toxic ‘fall out’ from this
mode of atmospheric metal pollution.
there is no doubt about the use of barium for ionospheric research of course - and plenty of sources to show that it happens - but reference 62 is about 4 specific releases at 965 km over the Polar ice Cap - http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1981JGR....86.3519H - how this is supposed to enter the food chain almost 1000km below and several thousand Km to the south is not explained.[60] Paine TO. NASA Barium ion cloud; Patent US 3813875,
Barium release system to create ion clouds in upper
atmosphere. Application Number; US 1972000248761. Patent
issue date; June 4th 1974.
[61] Dorsch J. Electronic News; January 11 1999.
[62] Heppner JP, Miller MB, Pongratz MB, Smith GM, Smith LL,
Mende SB, et al. The cameo barium releases: e-parallel
fields over the polar cap. J Geophys Res 1981;86:3519
[chapter 3].
Reference 61 I have never been able to find on the 'net. The magazine has a wiki page - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_News and there appears to be nothing else by the author available on this subject on the 'net.
Reference 60 is a patent for a Barium release mechanism for a rocket - so nothing more than evidence that sounding rockets can release barium.
so there is no verifiable evidence of chemtrails presented here at all.
As to whether the reported biological effects of various high levels of those elements exist - I have no idea. the author has a page on wiki - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Purdey - he is now deceased, but had an agenda to show that BSE (mad cow disease) was caused by various things that affected the balance of metals in the brains of cattle. He did a good job of educating himself, but his theories, which were always entirely theoretical and contained no actual biochemical research, have never been accepted.
Last edited by MikeC; March 12th, 2012 at 03:59 PM.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
Trigger Hippie (March 13th, 2012)
Seems he did find differences in concentrations between different corridors . . .his assumption was the source was related to military aircraft activity. . . .this is the only study I have seen where elevations of substances common to aircraft activity except for barium were found in two populations of biologicals . . . Of course aircraft are not the only sources . . . yet interesting never the less . . . By-the-way this author to my knowledge has ever mentioned the concept of CHEMTRAILs . . .
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
Rubbish - his statement that barium is dispersed along jet flight paths to facilitate communications I quoted is one of the many reasons punted up as explaining what chemtrails are used for. He doesn't use the word - but the concept is right there.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
You are accusing this poor deceased man of being a closet Chemtard . . . how cruel . . . LoL!!!
The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B
How typical of you to change the subject rather than debate the subject matter.
His interest was in causes of BSE. AFAIK he had no particular interest in chemtrails at all, and was looking for possible reasons for increased barium levels, stumbling across this hoax.
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
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