Debunked: Orgone Ice Stalagmites and Spikes

[Mick]

Sometimes when you make ice cubes in the freezer, you get odd spikes on top of the ice:



This does not happen all the time, and many people will never see this. It depends on what's in your water, the temperature of your freezer, and if there's a fan in the freezer. They form most frequently with distilled water, and not very often with regular tap water.

Caltech's SnowCrystals.com page has an explanation as to why they form:

Content from external source

Ice spikes grow as the water in an ice cube tray turns to ice. The water first freezes on the top surface, around the edges of what will become the ice cube. The ice slowly freezes in from the edges, until just a small hole is left unfrozen in the surface. At the same time, while the surface is freezing, more ice starts to form around the sides of the cube.
Since ice expands as it freezes, the ice freezing below the surface starts to push water up through the hole in the surface ice (see diagram). If the conditions are just right, then water will be forced out of the hole in the ice and it will freeze into an ice spike, a bit like lava pouring out of a hole in the ground to makes a volcano. But water does not flow down the sides of a thin spike, so in that way it is different from a volcano. Rather, the water freezes around the rim of the tube, and thus adds to its length. The spike can continue growing taller until all the water freezes, cutting off the supply, or until the tube freezes shut.

And here's a schematic diagram:



Fascinating stuff. But what really got me interested was the claim made at Orgone Innovations (a site that sells "personal orgone generators", aka POGs), that you could create these stalagmites simply by placing a "POG" on top of the freezer. Note that the POG is not some kind of machine. It sounds a bit like an ozone generator, but really it's just a bunch of cheap beads, crystals and wire encased in resin - a pretty paperweight. And it's not place IN the freezer, where you might think it could have an effect, but instead is placed OUTSIDE the freezer, where any effect is going to be something entirely new to science.

Here's their explanation and schematic of what they think is going on. Compare to the one above:

Content from external source




What this simple experiment does is reveal the Positive Orgone Generators effect upon the structure of water. It also shows the permeating nature of Orgone Energy and its ability to transcend obstacles such as insulation, plastic, electrical wiring, metal, paint, and glass. This is easy to understand when we recognize that all matter is energy, and all energy vibrates and changes frequency. Probably the most profound aspect of this experiment is that it shows how greatly Positive Orgone Generators effect water in an intelligent and living manner. This has extreme significance when we recognize that all living things are made from water. Keeping a Positive Orgone Generator with you at all times will charge the water within your body, much like the intelligent/life energy of the ice crystals.

Does it work? No.

Have I tried it, to verify it does not work? No.

So how can I claim it does not work, if I've never tried it? I know it does not work because nobody has ever demonstrated that it works. If it did​ work, then it would revolutionize physics. It's a discovery more than worthy of a Nobel Prize. But nobody has ever demonstrated that it works. Sure, people have put distilled water in a freezer, and put the POG on top, and two hours later stalagmites formed, but they would have formed anyway - it's distilled water!. They need to take the extra step of trying it without the POG, and verifying that nothing happened, then with the POG again. They need to do this about ten times both with and without the POG, using the same tray and water. Then document what happens, and collect your Nobel prize.

[Nighthawk]

Water in a freezer can be fun. I like to take bottled water and put it in the freezer over night. In the morning it is still liquid (unfrozen) and when it is disturbed it almost instantly freezes. The kids think this is the coolest thing.

I do have a question about this distilled water spike. With the above thing about the bottled water, why doesn't the same happen with the distilled water in the ice cube tray? Distilled water is supposed to be pure so there should be nothing for the ice crystals to form around (nucleation) correct? Just wondering.

[Mick]

I do have a question about this distilled water spike. With the above thing about the bottled water, why doesn't the same happen with the distilled water in the ice cube tray? Distilled water is supposed to be pure so there should be nothing for the ice crystals to form around (nucleation) correct? Just wondering.

Ice cubes are exposed to freezing air, so there's a very different process going on if you compare it to the bottle of water.

The bottle is cooled from all sides, and gradually through insulating plastic, without any air movement. The ice cube has evaporation/condensation/freezing/precipitation at the direct interface of the warm water and -20c air. Plenty of opportunity for nucleation.

It will freeze at the edge first as the meniscus effect reduces surface tension, leading to greater evaporation, etc.

[Nighthawk]

Ice cubes are exposed to freezing air, so there's a very different process going on if you compare it to the bottle of water.

The bottle is cooled from all sides, and gradually through insulating plastic, without any air movement. The ice cube has evaporation/condensation/freezing/precipitation at the direct interface of the warm water and -20c air. Plenty of opportunity for nucleation.

It will freeze at the edge first as the meniscus effect reduces surface tension, leading to greater evaporation, etc.

That's kinda what I was thinking, but wasn't sure.

I wonder if the chemtrail believers realize that the processes that cause ice cubes to freeze, form those spikes or even the bottled water thing is the same as what causes contrails to form, linger for hours or spread?

Nah, I guess if they did they would know that what they see are really just contrails.

[Mick]

Water freezing (and other phase changes) is rather tricky to get a full grasp of. We are brought up with a very simply model - that water freezes at 0C/32F, and that it boils at at 100C/212F. The actual underlying model mechanism - the movement and forces between molecules - is almost never something people learn about (or at least remember). So we get stuck with this very simplistic model of how water works, and kind of shoehorn what we see into that.

Many people will just reject the idea that water can be solid, liquid, or gas at temperatures well below freezing, and well above boiling.

It's when people venture out of their boundaries of comprehension without realizing it that we get problems.

[firepilot]

Water freezing (and other phase changes) is rather tricky to get a full grasp of. We are brought up with a very simply model - that water freezes at 0C/32F, and that it boils at at 100C/212F. The actual underlying model mechanism - the movement and forces between molecules - is almost never something people learn about (or at least remember). So we get stuck with this very simplistic model of how water works, and kind of shoehorn what we see into that.

Many people will just reject the idea that water can be solid, liquid, or gas at temperatures well below freezing, and well above boiling.

It when people venture out of their boundaries of comprehension without realizing it that we get problems.

Yes, we are given a vastly oversimplified version of it.

0C/32c is not the freezing temp, its the melting temperature of ice. If water always froze at 0c, we would not have aircraft structural icing.
But since water can easily be in a supercooled liquid state (esp around -5 to -12c) of small droplets, when those droplets hit something, like an aircraft for example, they then freeze on impact.

[Mick]

And the idea that steam can exist at -40 is also a little perplexing, as people think of steam as the stuff that comes out of a kettle, or is inside a sauna. Technically you are surrounded by steam right now. But the common usage of the word "steam" confuses the matter.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

Content from external source:

The vapour into which water is converted when heated. In popular language, applied to the visible vapour which floats in the air in the form of a white cloud or mist, and which consists of minute globules or vesicles of liquid water suspended in a mixture of gaseous water and air. (Also sometimes applied to the vapour arising from other liquids when heated.) In modern scientific and technical language, applied only to water in the form of an invisible gas.

[Jesus_Loves_You]

um first of all you didnt try it because it does work. I highly doubt if mick even exists he would own orgonite. There's no way he's as technical and "smart" (not really) as he is believing all that he does.

Does anyone realize that this site asserts the fact that ALL CONSPIRACIES are FALSE. If this site proved some to be true, then it would be more realistic. But everything this site does goes against the laws of probability (and many other laws of science).

This DOES work, but you have to have quality orgonite. And anyone who is going to spend money on something they don't believe works, isn't going to spend the time and energy to get a quality orgone device. I think I might just sign up here when I have free time but I'm pretty sure SHTF soon so I dont have time.

I mean, really it doesnt work? Oh so people jsut take pictures of ice that does that when there is orgone in the fridge and its just by coincidence I see. I Mean wtf! Orgone is incredible and you can measure it with EMF meters and ION meters etc.


Here's a good website. THese people are spending their time and money to place orgonite all around the world to protect us from the government which secretly wants us all dead. Oh boy we are so close to the end now its not even funny.

please if there are any actual humans here, It might be hard to see with all the poisons in your body chronically built up, but there is some serious stuff going on and few have the guts or courage or brain power to handle investigating it. All this place does is reassure people that every conspiracy is false.

The answer most people dont want to hear is the one which says these conspiracies are true. WHY? Because their entire existence relies on it. If even one of these wacky conspiracies is true, it changes everything we know about science and the world around us. The problem is we look at one conspiracy and try to debunk it using the science we were taught and the methods we know. But the problem with that is even the science we were taught is a lie and false and that's a conspiracy too. THere are two realities occurring right now on this planet - one of which is a reality where all this stuff is true - WHY? Because if the government is willing to poison you with fluoride, then it would also be more likely that they are willing to poison you with chemtrails. See thats the thing all these conspiracies are connected, and just one being real will change everything! --- AND most people can't handle that - they are RELYING on it NOT to be true -- and they look around and EVERYONE ELSE is relying on it not to be true -- WHY? Because they are GREEDY! and they have their little world and their job and their car and their aspirations and they don't want to hear something that says the future is not going to be good -- because IF 9/11 was an inside job then that means Americans could lose their freedom to Fascism.

People don't want to believe it. The media is now owned by a few individuals and is entirely corrupt. The politicians we all know are crooked. And also satanists and you can look this up Bohemian Grove.

I mean look around you. This is not good. We need to "be love" and start embracing our inner strength and wisdom and love thy neighbor - we don't need government any more. James Holmes is not a killer. There were 2 gas masks found at the scene (this is one of like 220 facts that prove his innocence) -- Bad guys dont exist in the public. They exist in the government

please, read "THe Report From Iron Mountain" about how government needs to have war or some kind of catastrophe or situation occuring in order to maintain dominance and control.

Mick, if you were just a person, and not a disinfo agent, or not a group of hired 3rd world workers with an internet connection who gets payed 2$ an hour or something like that, then I think you are a complete idiot for looking into this stuff for this long without waking up. Seriously.

Truth will always win, and one of these days if something doesn't happen on thanksgiving or xmas, I will argue the truth here and win every time. Because its THE TRUTH!

And you know I am all for debunking false conspiracies. This site would be legitimate, and could even be a role model for society if we were to approach things in a non biased, truth enlightenment seeking way -- but all this does is reassure peoples fears until SHIT HITS THE FAN.

Peace and love to you all. Even those who participate in the cover up of all this nasty stuff, for you are helping to destroy your own world and your own body by doing so.

[Mick]

um first of all you didnt try it because it does work.

Sure it "works", but it works with or without orgonite. It's just something that water does sometimes when freezing.

If you can prove Orgonite exists, then you would win a Nobel prize. Go ahead.

Does anyone realize that this site asserts the fact that ALL CONSPIRACIES are FALSE.

Really? Where?

[lotek]

HA! i have a few pictures of this from about 6 years ago. i saw it, looked it up, about 15min later was a good bit more educated in the physics of freezing water, then at the very end i found a link about orgone and that was the first id heard of it. much wiki followed and it was a hillarious 2hrs of laughable reading.

the science is just so damn obvious here, and its so easy and cheap to test. if you are freezing cubes on a macro scale its not all too rare. $60usd mini freezer off craigslist, $10usd for 40 ice cube trays, $x for water and electricity under 20 id bet, and thats it.

freeze 20,000cubes with no orgone device, count the number of spikes.
freeze 20,000cubes with the orgone device, count number of spikes.

then the extra bit of proof would be to:

freeze 20,000cubes with an "orgone blocking device" or similar, something accepted as rational by the orgone community to decrease formation, count the spikes
freeze 20,000cubes with alterations to the scientific variables leaning to more spike production. measurable things, free air%, temps, air flow, RH, etc, count the spikes.

now this would be a huge waste of time, but id bet you the first 3 tests would all be same within a margin of error, and only test 4 would show any difference. this would have the side effect of showing an orgone believer, in their own 'science'/logic, that even using their equipment, even if its 100%real, there is no alteration, just to add a lil extra context for them.

this would take no more than 4 months at a leisurely pace and cost less than 100 bucks.

update, got my pics up.