I really hope this lawsuit sees a court room. This is the worst thing they can do for their case.
I really hope this lawsuit sees a court room. This is the worst thing they can do for their case.
I'm trying to publicise it and encourage them over at ATS
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
I just joined in on the ATS discussion. I also added language to both my ChemTrail videos (http://tinyurl.com/cllnq45 and http://tinyurl.com/7g8f7tq) encouraging believers to join the lawsuit.Originally Posted by MikeC
I'm trying to publicise it and encourage them over at ATS
Ironic that they complain of FB Censorship, yet continue to censor peoples' posts.
I can't wait to see them try! Then maybe it will sink in that they don't understand this subject as much as they believe they do. Then again, maybe it won't.
Yes I really do want them to see this through.
Absolutely. It's the best thing they could do for themselves. It will lead to knowledge they have never possessed before. It will also ease the minds of many people who fear trails of water vapor only because they have been led astray by the tinfoil hat crowd.
Hopefully it will also teach people to thoroughly research a subject BEFORE they take a stand. Which, of course, chemtrails advocates have NOT done.
I think though that if they get to court and it's thrown out, then they won't have enough time to realize exactly what they got wrong, and instead will blame the PTB (Powers That Be). Instead of figuring out what they got wrong, they will simply rail against the corrupt system.
Remember Al DiCicco already has been in front of the council, who had an expert there, but he just ignored it. He still maintains there are unusually high levels of barium in the blood tests, even though on his own Facebook page there's a document the clearly explains the levels were normal.
So I think it's still worth gradually trying to communicate the basic science to them. This is rather difficult as they think this web site is some kind of government shill operation. But if we stick to basic points of science, then we might get through.
Seems that someone up above was correct about the choice of lawyer
"PRESS RELEASE
Contact: Joseph Marman
Phone: (916) 721-3324
Fax: (916) 721-3633
...E-mail: [email protected]
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
May 9, 2012
DOCUMENTATION NEEDED FOR LAWSUIT
Joseph Marman, a practicing attorney in California, is filing a lawsuit against weather modification programs also known as stratospheric aerosol geoengineering programs and Chemtrails. Documentation and evidence is needed to carry out any legal action.
Below is a list of information that is being requested:
1. The best solid evidence that will connect these programs in the skies to the toxics on the ground.
2. The best evidence connection to which and/or whose jets are spraying these chemicals. Perhaps we could give coordinates of times, directions, locations, etc. of the jets that we are watching doing the spraying, and ask the FAA to give us the information as which jets were in our skies at that time.
3. Which agencies shall we sue? Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), Department of Defense, North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD), California-EPA, Air or Water Quality Control Boards, Air Force, Evergreen Air Facility in Tucson, CIA ? We would argue that these agencies have a statutory obligation to watch and safeguard our air and water, and they have breached their legal obligation to protect the public, despite the evidence we have that gives us enough information that the governmental agencies should follow up and get answers. Also, our theory could be loss of sun light that helps our planet prosper and be healthy.
4. There should be some provisions in Federal or State Codes for us to seek not only compensation for harm, but also get an order from the Court to force the Agencies to take action, as well as recover attorney's fees for us undertaking the lawsuit.
5. Perhaps there are others that know of suits or attorneys that have undertaken these suits before and which laws we should sue under; be it either Federal or State laws and courts.
6. We also want evidence regarding the type and nature of the harm on the ground, to animals, water and humans, that can be connected to the barium, strontium, aluminum and other chemicals suspected of being aerosol sprayed as part of these programs.
7. Eventually we will need expert witnesses to be able to testify, in court, to convince the jury or the judge that this is actually happening, and it needs to be stopped.
Be aware that if we sue these agencies and we lose, we could be subjected to costs of defense of the suit. It may or may not include attorney's fees in our cost bill if we sue and lose, so it is important to have solid evidence before we file the suit.
If anyone has information that they would like to provide to Mr. Marman, please forward it to the following address:
Law Offices of Joseph H. Marman, Esq.
8427 Auburn Boulevard, Suite 145
Citrus Heights, CA 95610-0394 "
From the Geoengineering FB page
I've been waiting for ANY evidence to connect the supposed "programs in the skies" to ANY toxins on the ground...and it just never appears!Seems that someone up above was correct about the choice of lawyer
"PRESS RELEASE
Contact: Joseph Marman
Phone: (916) 721-3324
Fax: (916) 721-3633
...E-mail: [email protected]
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
May 9, 2012
DOCUMENTATION NEEDED FOR LAWSUIT
Joseph Marman, a practicing attorney in California, is filing a lawsuit against weather modification programs also known as stratospheric aerosol geoengineering programs and Chemtrails. Documentation and evidence is needed to carry out any legal action.
Below is a list of information that is being requested:
1. The best solid evidence that will connect these programs in the skies to the toxics on the ground.
There is NOTHING but speculation and assumption connecting anything on the ground with the trails in the sky.
I wish them luck!
Joseph Marman is listed as a Vice President and Director of Environmental Voices, but it's not clear what his actual involvement is. That seems to be run my Deborah Whitman, and his involvement might be just one of association. He's also a member of the Sierra Club, a much more sensible organization. Although he does also seem to be a 9/11 "truther".
Seems a little odd to announce you are going to sue without having the evidence, or knowing who you are going to sue.
Just checked, and it was Firepilot who guessed correctly about the lawyer. You win a weeks supply of facemasks.
tryblinking (May 10th, 2012)
The Sierra Club? I'm sure that Ansel Adams was a member.
Al DiCicco: this is our attorney. Please do not bombard him with calls and questions. We now need to raise $1000 for some expenses for Joe. He is taking the case pro bono, but we will have some costs.
I think it's pretty likely this lawsuit will stop at this point.
Woohoo, I got something right for once! That was the only lawyer I know of who has been publicly associated with chemtrail groups. He has been trying for a couple of years now to get a lawsuit going.
I think the part though about people who sign on being possibly financially liable for legal fees if they lose, will keep many of them from joining.
Perhaps it might be worth something to send the factual disproofs of the hoax direct to this Joseph Marman chap. If he alone can see reason this whole farce might just be averted.
I'd love to know the hoax had been exposed in open court, believe me. I know they do deserve it in some ways, but as a decent human being, I'd rather these unfortunate people don't have any more of their money squeezed out of them under the banner of this deceitful cause. The 'promoters' may lose some money - and they certainly deserve it - but it's the ordinary 'followers' who will surely be hit worst when the time comes to settle up.
"at the length truth will out"
Bill Shakespeare, 'The Merchant of Venice'
I see your point however, but I think being disproved in court, could prevent more people in the future from falling into the chemtrail hoax.
It's not going to get to court. Marman may be a truther, but he's also asked for some reasonable evidence before moving forward:
1. The best solid evidence that will connect these programs in the skies to the toxics on the ground.
2. The best evidence connection to which and/or whose jets are spraying these chemicals. Perhaps we could give coordinates of times, directions, locations, etc. of the jets that we are watching doing the spraying, and ask the FAA to give us the information as which jets were in our skies at that time.
It seems very unlikely that they will get such evidence. There have been attempts by chemtrail believers on the Facebook page to try to discuss this, but they have been rebuffed as shills.
It's a shame though, as some rigorous scientific investigation would do wonders to clear up the confusion associated with the chemtrail theory.
You are probably right. I predicted on the first page that would never happen, since chemtrailers who are willing to spend weeks of their life on chemtrail message boards, loathe spending any money on their cause.
I like the idea of them getting a major embarrassment in court, but odds are slim to none that it will ever get there.
It's not going to get to court. Marman may be a truther, but he's also asked for some reasonable evidence before moving forward:
1. The best solid evidence that will connect these programs in the skies to the toxics on the ground.
2. The best evidence connection to which and/or whose jets are spraying these chemicals. Perhaps we could give coordinates of times, directions, locations, etc. of the jets that we are watching doing the spraying, and ask the FAA to give us the information as which jets were in our skies at that time.
It seems very unlikely that they will get such evidence. There have been attempts by chemtrail believers on the Facebook page to try to discuss this, but they have been rebuffed as shills.
It's a shame though, as some rigorous scientific investigation would do wonders to clear up the confusion associated with the chemtrail theory.
ChemTrailers declare Marman part of the conspiracy to suppress the truth in 5, 4, 3, 2 ...
Well May 15 has come and gone. Wonder if they got their evidence?
Well, according to their web site:
http://chemtrailgeoengineeringlawsuit.webs.com/
They have rejected 8 members, and accepted 2. So I don't think they really are getting much response at all.
I tried discussing some of the science with Robert, but he does not seem too interested. So they are still proceeding along with all the wrong numbers.
These people seem to be well out there
"Robert M Forgette Yes, fires burn hotter due to the Aluminum saturated soil and plant life. 5 hours ago
David Strickler Sr. Barium is the bad stuff for wildland fires,due too magnesium that is in Barium. 5 hours ago
Kenny Field You've probably hit the cause of the wildfires... aluminum and barium, and those fires are usually set by an arsonist. 4 hours ago
Fred Pinard everything is more energized...why do ya think yer ears are ringin more lately? We are channeling the frequencies...more like we are the brunt of the frequencies. 3 hours ago
Barium has Magnesium in it????
There's nothing wrong with what you wrote, but please be careful here. Most people have a very limited understanding of chemistry and physics. So while these mistakes are rather extreme, we should still be polite and understanding about it. My mother does not know any more than these folks about chemistry, but I would not describe her as "well out there".
The problem is not really their lack of knowledge, it's their resistance to any suggestion that they might have made a mistake. They don't need educating, they need to be a little more open minded. And of course if you do anything that might insult them, then they will clam up and reject everything you say.
Harsh and direct criticism has its place when discussing people who reach a lot of other people, like Michael J. Murphy (and even then I try to stay as polite as possible). But with statements like "Yes, fires burn hotter due to the Aluminum saturated soil and plant life.", it's not enough to put them up for ridicule. The statement demonstrate a huge mistake in understanding, but it's also going to sound reasonable to other believers with average (i.e. very low) understanding of chemistry.
There are no easy answers, as the explanation of "Yes, fires burn hotter due to the Aluminum saturated soil and plant life." is quite complex (although you could simplify it "that's aluminum oxide, basically sand, which does not burn. Plus there's no evidence that levels have changed."). Keep in mind the goal here is get rid of bunk, not simply find it and put it on display.
Sorry if this comes across as disparaging, Danny55. Your post is pretty innocuous, I've probably done worse myself. It just reminded me of the line we have to tread between constructive and destructive criticism.
Al DiCicco This lawsuit is not going to work if we dont send some money to the attorney. I spoke to him today and he has not received any checks. So, we have come this far, people say they are sending money, but non received. Hmmmm. 1823 people here and we can't raise $1000 in a week. I did my job.
Pretty inevitable really. I think chemtrail believers over-estimate the amount of popular support they have. 1800 likes on Facebook does not translate to 1800 supporters.
While I'm glad that people won't be wasting their time and money, it's also a shame that they never really got to the stage of really getting the scientific evidence together, and trying to get it up to some legal standard. If they did, then many of them would have eventually figured out that all the test results are actually quite normal.
tryblinking (May 17th, 2012)
I would have seriously considered sending $100 or so if there was a Paypal account.
Anyway, there is no evil "them" to blame for the stall. Al DiCicco sounds a little bitter; he may realize that big words don't necessarily translate into big activism.
BTW, I think the same applies to the majority of shootdown threats. Although a single serious one would be devastating enough.
They should have set up a https://www.wepay.com/ account, that way people could see how much money was raised. Just expecting people to mail a check into a black hole is vastly unrealistic.
And choosing that insecure funding route out of so many tried and tested methods can make the whole thing seem like a con to a more reserved supporter. So, it looks now like people have joined this Fb page/bandwagon without much conviction; not enough to actually commit to funding it anyway. Those convictions are being publicly tested, and it's becoming clear that their strength - evidenced in monetary support - is in fact insufficient to achieve anything meaningful. People just don't believe enough in this cause/case, and clearly those more centrally involved need think hard about why that is.
Only 10 applications to join is really no better than none as far as a cause like this, which is the point. But also I wonder, with so little in the way of dedicated interest and monetary support, what are their criteria for 'rejection' of that 80%?They have rejected 8 members, and accepted 2. So I don't think they really are getting much response at all.
Last edited by tryblinking; May 17th, 2012 at 07:23 AM.
"at the length truth will out"
Bill Shakespeare, 'The Merchant of Venice'
I think they feel like they are being targeted - there have been suggestions that Facebook has been doing things to their group (all of which have just been normal Facebook behavior - like not being able to share group posts). They also think that debunkers are paid infiltrators (COINTELPRO) and so are trying to set up a group that will keep them out, so they must be vetting applicants somehow - rejecting those with a whiff of suspicion.
Of course that all just leads to friction, and they won't get many members, and any actual FBI mole is going to get in anyway.
"what are their criteria for 'rejection' of that 80%?"
Seems to be if someone has not been active in either of the 2 facebook groups, or has not posted a lab analysis, then they are not allowed in the 3rd group. There could be more accepted as the 2 names have been posted to remind those 2 to activate their account using their login details.
I see that Al Dicicco's facebook page has been deleted. The group has a new home page:
http://chemtrailgeoengineeringlawsuit.webs.com/
They also have a new spokesman, Robert M. Forgette, who sems intelligent enough to figure it all out.
I doubt that he will last long, unless he is being deceptive. I sense some instability with him, somehow, and paranoia.
He runs a security device firm in California:
http://www.murrietasecurityservice.com/about_us.html
I definitely intend on joining your group, Rob!
Last edited by Jay Reynolds; June 16th, 2012 at 10:12 AM.
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
Jay, i just checked the group page at https://www.facebook.com/groups/131756470228822/ and it looks like it's back.
I'm watching his video now. Oh yeah, he's paranoid. Talking about trolls, he knows who you (the trolls) are, "Don't ask how i know, but i do", "I pity any troll that gets into my site. I will find out who you are."
VERY entertaining.
Forgette has been doing it for a while. He's intelligent, but is incredibly defensive, and lacks patience. He's got a lot of strange beliefs beyond chemtrails - particularly Morgellons and "smart dust". He does genuinely believe all of it. He's somewhat receptive to science. But I strongly suggest people avoid mocking or provoking him, otherwise he'll just clam up.
They will be at the Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails Conference
"Robert M Forgette
Being offered a Booth at this event in LA in August 17-18-19TH, 2012. If we get a booth, I would like to invite some of our members which have extensive knowledge and are able to stand their ground if they run into the one's whom doubt. We have an opportunity to bring awareness and share all the facts we have, plus evidence we will have gained by then.Consciousness Beyond Chemtrails: August 17-19, 2012
www.consciousnessbeyondchemtrails.com
Share · 13 June at 07:11
From Al Dicicco's facebook page as of 2hrs ago, it seems a claim will be filed within 2 weeks!
Can't WAIT to see how quickly it gets thrown out. I can almost hear the conspiratorial whining already...
"at the length truth will out"
Bill Shakespeare, 'The Merchant of Venice'
Have they said who exactly they are going to file the lawsuit against?
Think it's either the EPA, the FAA, the Federal Government or the State of California.
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