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Thread: Where Is the "Bilderberg Debunked" Thread At?

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    Where Is the "Bilderberg Debunked" Thread At?

    I did do a search on Bilderbergers and of the 3 hits on Metabunk I found I could not get logged in to reply to any of them no matter how many times I tried. I don't know if its because they are older posts (2011) or what but I can’t get logged in to reply to them but I can start a new thread or reply to something recent ergo my posting this under the forum section titled

    Conspiracy Theories
    The New World Order, 9/11, Monsanto, Bilderbergers, and everything conspiratorial


    The question is why is there nothing posted about Debunking the Bilderberg Group and/or its Annual Conference?

    Of the 3 threads I found (and was unable to reply to) I did see where Mick (MetaBunk.org Admin) replied asking "When did anyone say that Bilderberg Did Not Exits" and also posted some old news paper clippings.

    (This is for Mick) If you are saying that you don't know of any instances of a public figure or entity (i.e. a major news media outlet or persona) calling the Bilderberg Group and or its meeting a conspiracy theory then either you're outright lying or you're not as informed about current events as one would be lead to believe by your numerous posts.

    The undeniable facts


    1. There is a group (yes I know it’s a private organization) of very powerful individuals from a varied background including major world leaders, titans of industry, captains of international financing and even royalty like Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands who has been in attendance at most if not every conference the group has had since its start.



    1. The majority of the main stream media outlets including broadcast TV and radio as well as the rags (newspapers, magazines) have at one time or another thru at least one representative of that entity be they an anchor or a reporter, have either dismissed such a group/meeting existed and or called the “Bilderberg Group/Meeting” a Conspiracy Theory. Trying to imply that no such denial has occurred across the whole of the news media is at best incompetent and at worst deceptive.


    Now that the group and its meeting have been exposed enough in large scale media (i.e. the London Guardian ) the attempts to deny the group and or its meeting exist have stopped. At this point why try to deny it exists. The existence of such a group and its annual meeting separate from what the group does and its proclaimed power, and the fact that it’s NOT been annual reported on by most of the media outlets up until the last few years is enough for us all to take pause and ask WHY? The fact that it is a private group does NOT change the fact that its beyond illogical that the news outlets did not at least have 1 reporter on site to report at each annual meeting. Why? Because that’s what the media does. Even the infamous paparazzi, save for a few who do not accept what the media tells them as fact, avoided this gathering of the world’s most powerful elite.


    Mick, as well as any other debunker out there, answer me this one simple question. How is it that an annual meeting like the Bilderbergers, that consists of a collection of hundreds of the world’s most wealthy and powerful, can occur every year for decades and not be reported on annually by at least the major news outlets if not more news media? And please don’t say it’s because it’s a private meeting. Being private has never before kept out investigative reporters.

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    The Bilderberg meeting is specifically intend to be a forum without press coverage, so the powerful people involved can speak freely to each other without their words being reported. So they keep reporters out, and ask any journalists who do attend as participants not to report on what they hear.

    What's so complicated? How hard is it to keep reporters out? Do you think investigative reporters can simply walk in wherever they like? It's a private meeting. It was reported on back in the 1950s, even with some insider accounts. Nobody has ever attempted to deny it.

    And (again) here's a newspaper article from 1957, just after the first US meeting. Clearly the meetings were never denied. But those who did not attend have been spreading conspiracy theories about them since the very beginning.

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...5671%2C4662079



    And this is from Pacific Stars and Stripes, Feb 17, 1957:


    The Daily Mail, Hagerstown, Maryland, Feb 12, 1957:

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    How does one 'debunk' Bilderberg?

    And yes the meetings were denied by attendees and various media people, primarily pro-collectivist radio hosts. It was very rarely reported on in the mainstream national media, small local papers to this day continue to report on it unhindered by big corporations.

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    I think it's not reported on because there's no interesting story going to come out of it with the lack of access to what's actually going on.

    From a participant:
    http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....racy-theories/
    Quote Content from external source:

    I can’t tell you how many times people ask me about the conspiracy of the Bilderberg Group. It is a conference I’ve occasionally been invited to and have attended once or twice.If only the people who wrote the alarmist treatises on the Bilderberg Group were allowed in. They would be so utterly disappointed. It’s just a conference like dozens of others around the world. And anyway, the idea that a finance minister or a banker would say something with a group of 150 people that is any different than what he would say in public is crazy in today's world where everything leaks instantly. In my experience, they say the same fairly banal platitudes inside as they say outside.So on the few occasions in my life when I’ve been inside centers of the conspiracy, I’ve been disappointed and relieved to find they were pretty much like the world on the outside.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    I think it's not reported on because there's no interesting story going to come out of it with the lack of access to what's actually going on.

    From a participant:
    http://globalpublicsquare.blogs.cnn....racy-theories/
    Quote Content from external source:

    I can’t tell you how many times people ask me about the conspiracy of the Bilderberg Group. It is a conference I’ve occasionally been invited to and have attended once or twice.If only the people who wrote the alarmist treatises on the Bilderberg Group were allowed in. They would be so utterly disappointed. It’s just a conference like dozens of others around the world. And anyway, the idea that a finance minister or a banker would say something with a group of 150 people that is any different than what he would say in public is crazy in today's world where everything leaks instantly. In my experience, they say the same fairly banal platitudes inside as they say outside.So on the few occasions in my life when I’ve been inside centers of the conspiracy, I’ve been disappointed and relieved to find they were pretty much like the world on the outside.


    And exactly how then do you explain the presence of US government officials who in accordance with the Logan Act are not allowed to attend private (not open to the public) meetings that may involve in anyway public policies directly or indirectly? And please don’t say they aren’t discussing anything related to public policy. The conference would not invite a climatologist to be involved in a discussion about finance.

    As for your proof via the 1957 newspaper, I'm just curious, was there nothing more recent say from the 90s or 2000's ? AS for the meeting being private and that's why no media reports on it. By making that statement you yourself are effectively providing written testimonial that the media is controlled, specifically by those who are part of this meeting. Name another gathering that is on scale with the Bilderberg conference in terms of the number of global power brokers which no main stream media outlets report on.

    As far as the testimonial from a former attendee of the conference, that has no merit. Not because it is or is not accurate but because the source is part of the group. That’s like asking one of Al Capone's captains, after having left a private meeting with Al if they discussed anything of interest to the Feds. You know the answer is going to be No. This idea that nothing of interest ever goes on at Bilderberg is an oxymoron.

    If there's nothing worth reporting then what goes on at this conference that is of value enough to get these powerful people to come and keep doing so every year? Orchestrating a get together on this magnitude with these kinds of people is no small matter. It's expensive and requires a lot of planning and resources. These kinds of people, the elite of the world, do not get together for several days every year to simply share stock tips and swap jokes. Just out of curiosity, what do you think they do at the conferences that is not worthy of the attention/scrutiny of the public but yet gets these people who are usually very busy to keep coming back year after year?

    Mick, when you look at this logically I don’t see how you can simply say there's nothing going on here. If it were a handful of rich guys getting together or the heads of the leaders of some industry that would be one thing. The Bilderberg conferences always has the elites in every science, industry and so on that you can imagine. Do you honestly believe that they get together for 3 days with officials from our government as well as officials from other nations and do not discuss in private anything that we the public would want to be aware of?

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    I didn't say there's nothing going on. I've no doubt that discussions held there have SOME impact of world events. How could they not? But whenever people meet there are similar outcomes. This is just the biggest private meeting.

    How does it violate the Logan act to discuss things? The Logan Act says:

    Quote Content from external source:

    Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarCritic View Post
    As for your proof via the 1957 newspaper, I'm just curious, was there nothing more recent say from the 90s or 2000's ?
    Plenty:

    https://www.google.com/search?pz=1&c...w=1427&bih=959

    Quote Content from external source:


    1. Barroso and Bilderberg to the Rescue of Belgium. Will the...


      canadafreepress.com - Oct 7, 2007
      While Mr. Barroso was visiting De Standaard, Viscount Etienne Davignon, a former European Commissioner who is the chairman of the secretive Bilderberg Group ...
    2. Blair Wins Election


      mathaba.net - May 5, 2005
      Plans are discussed at the annual secretive Bilderberg 'conspiracy' meetings according to long-termBilderberg analyst Tony Gosling of Bilderberg. ...
    3. VIPs' arrivals marked by a discreet 'B'


      Canada.com - Jun 9, 2006
      He denied the charge, advanced by Bilderberg critics, that the organization crafts public policy behind closed doors. "It discusses public policy," he ...
      Kanata hotel hosts high-level power...CBC.ca
      World's who's who hold secret talks in...bakutoday.net
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      CBS News - Nov 5, 2007
      Is the Bilderberg Group now molding domestic American policy? ... Tony Gosling, a British investigative reporter who has followed the Bilderbergers says, ...
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      New York Times - Jul 14, 1996
      The occasion was the annual Bilderberg conference, an exclusive gathering of international political and business leaders. "This was his coming-out party, ...
    6. World Media Watch June 9, 2006


      buzzflash.com - Jun 9, 2006
      They're called the Bilderberg group. They include European royalty, ... Those who follow theBilderberg group say it got Europe to adopt a common currency, ...
    7. Conspiracy or Coincidence?


      Portugal News - Jul 17, 2004
      The Bilderbergs are considered by some to be an inoffensive group of billionaires ... At the time theBilderberg meeting was taking place, Durão Barroso was ...
    8. Review: Them: Adventures with Extremists by Jon Ronson |...


      The Guardian - Apr 7, 2001
      As the book progresses, what emerges is the degree to which the real-life Bilderberg Group and the researchers who campaign against it are negatives of each ...
      Ordinary extremists - TelegraphTelegraph.co.uk
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      Houston Chronicle - Aug 20, 2007
      Whether it's the shadowy Bilderberg financial conference that took place in Turkey, or the triad of US, Canadian and Mexican chief executives convening this ...
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      CBS News - Nov 13, 2007
      Vote for Ron Paul. by nextprophet November 13, 2007 4:01 PM EST The Bilderberg Group is a secretive gathering of global power brokers, which includes ...
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      1. :: www.uruknet.info :: informazione dal medio oriente ::...


        uruknet.info - Feb 24, 2006
        In fact, the 1973 "oil embargo" was a scheme devised by the Bilderberg Group—"a ... "In 1973, the powerful men grouped around Bilderberg decided to launch a ...
      2. The Atlanta Journal and The Atlanta Constitution : Q & A ON...


        Pay-Per-View -Atlanta Journal-Constitution - May 9, 1996
        Q: A recent editorial column cited the Trilateral Commission and the Bilderbergers as "obscurities favored by our keenest conspiratorialists. ...
      3. Business as usual


        renewamerica.us - Mar 4, 2006
        These secret societies have names like the Illuminati, Council on Foreign Relations, Skull & Bones,Bilderberg and the Trilateral Commission among others. ...
      4. Comments on: Rome's Legendary "Wolf" Nursery Unveiled - CBS...


        CBS News - Nov 22, 2007
        ... because it''s too late--he''s already doomed. by sageprophet November 22, 2007 1:41 AM EST TheBilderberg Group is a secretive gathering of global power ...
      5. THE 2004 ELECTION: THE PROCESS; Aide in the Selection of a ...


        New York Times - Jul 7, 2004
        Several people pointed to the secretive and exclusive Bilderberg conference of some 120 people that this year drew the likes of Henry A. Kissinger, ...
        USATODAY.com - Kerry, Edwards make up...‎ USA Today
      6. Warner's Star in Presidential Politics Rises on Virginia...


        Bloomberg - Nov 10, 2005
        In May, Democratic elder statesman Vernon Jordan took Warner to the annual Bilderberg Conference, which brings together some of Europe's and North America's ...
      7. Philip C. Habib, a Leading US Diplomat, Dies at 72 - New...


        New York Times - May 27, 1992
        Just before his death, Mr. Habib had travelled to Evian, France to give a speech at the BilderbergConference, an annual meeting of European and United ...
      8. Blue Angel Jet Crashes at South Carolina Air Show - Salem...


        Salem-News.Com - Apr 21, 2007
        The Bilderberg meetings is a clear example of this. ... Also most people that attend Bilderberg or Council on Foreign Relations do so because it is ...
      9. BBC Monitoring International Reports : Bulgarian news...


        $2.95 -BBC Archive - Oct 21, 2000
        One of the organizers is the Bilderberg Group, on whose participation "Monitor" carries a commentary. Businessmen should have made their meeting open for ...
      10. BBC Monitoring International Reports : Bulgarian news...


        $2.95 -BBC Archive - Oct 24, 2000
        The US plan for a Balkan federation is put to work in Bulgaria by the Bilderbergs, "Monitor" says. "There are grounds to believe that the Economic Forum in ...



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    2. ZCommunications | Cockups Are Worse Than Conspiracies by...


      Z Magazine - Dec 12, 2006
      ... the annual Bilderburg group meeting, from the name of its first venue in 1954 in the Hotel deBilderberg in the Netherlands; Ditchley, an Anglo-American ...
    3. Anniston Star, The : Out of the woodwork


      $2.95 -Anniston Star - Apr 5, 2003
      "Its all part of a Zionist plot, hatched by the Bilderberg Group," some say - alluding to the notion (popular among extremists on the left and the right) ...
    4. Papuan self-determination - historical roots I | Webdiary -...


      Webdiary - Mar 30, 2006
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      Independent Online - Sep 6, 2000
      ... riddled with references to the Illuminati, the Bilderberg Group and the Club of Rome (elitist organisations apparently intent on taking over the world). ...
    6. Conspiracy Planet - Corporate-Govt Fraud - Kleptocrat 'Lord'...


      conspiracyplanet.com - Nov 18, 2005
      ... who was able to buy himself a title of nobility and ingratiated himself in global elite circles by attending meetings of the notorious Bilderberg group, ...
      News Tycoon Stole Millions, US Charges ...New York Times
    7. Defense Attacks Credibility of Black's Former Associate -...


      New York Times - May 10, 2007
      He noted that in the mid-1980s, Mr. Black's contacts through the invitation-only Bilderberg Group led to his acquisition of The Daily Telegraph. ...
    8. :: www.uruknet.info :: informazione dal medio oriente ::...


      uruknet.info - May 13, 2006
      Billionaire software kingpin and Bilderberg member Bill Gates, who recently ... Billionare investor andBilderberg member George Soros recently predicted a ...
    9. Charlotte Observer, The : EDWARDS BONES UP ON FOREIGN...


      $2.95 -Charlotte Observer - Jul 10, 2004
      ... he took part in a four-day gathering of an elite group of European and American power brokers and intellectuals known as the Bilderberg group, ...
    10. A Clinton Adviser to Join Lazard Freres - NYTimes.com


      nytimes.com - Dec 1, 1999
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    1. pitpass - Official: Minardi confirms Albers for 2005


      pitpass.com - Dec 23, 2004
      ... two race drivers for the new season was announced this morning to a packed press conference at the prestigious Bilderberg Garden Hotel in Amsterdam. ...
    2. Press Scan


      Turkish Press - May 19, 2007
      VATAN (INDEPENDENT) ------------------- BILDERBERG IN ISTANBUL AT END OF THIS MONTH The mysterious Bilderberg meeting, which is attended by most important ...
    3. Washingtonpost.com Special Report: Clinton Accused


      Washington Post - Jan 27, 1998
      Clinton to world leaders at their annual Bilderberg gathering in Germany in 1991 . Plenty of governors try to make that scene; only Clinton got taken ...
    4. Hail Keanu, black prince from Planet Mediocrity - Littlehamp...


      Littlehampton Gazette - May 22, 2003
      ... as quietly powerful as the Masons, with the glamour of Scientology and a possible infrastructure to rival that of the Bilderberg group. ...
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      $2.95 -Kansas City Star - Apr 25, 1999
      ... Yugoslavia was planned by the ``secret'' Bilderberg Group, made up of powerful politicians, bankers and military leaders, including President Clinton, ...
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      canadafreepress.com - Jan 28, 2005
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      $1.95 -Denver Post - Feb 1, 1998
      Clinton to world leaders at their annual Bilderberg gathering in Germany in 1991 . Plenty of governors try to make that scene; only Clinton got taken ...
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      Ottawa Citizen - Jun 19, 1985
      ... both from April 1973 to show Premier Pe ter Lougheed was to attend a Bilderberg conference in Sweden. refusal to provide a list of the participants in ...
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      nytimes.com - Oct 20, 2002
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    Administrator Mick's Avatar
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    And here's some more, mostly from local papers:

    http://newspaperarchive.com/tags/bil...05&psb=dateasc

    Typical, 1996, Brandon Sun, June 1,


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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueCollarCritic View Post

    If there's nothing worth reporting then what goes on at this conference that is of value enough to get these powerful people to come and keep doing so every year? Orchestrating a get together on this magnitude with these kinds of people is no small matter. It's expensive and requires a lot of planning and resources. These kinds of people, the elite of the world, do not get together for several days every year to simply share stock tips and swap jokes. Just out of curiosity, what do you think they do at the conferences that is not worthy of the attention/scrutiny of the public but yet gets these people who are usually very busy to keep coming back year after year?

    Mick, when you look at this logically I don’t see how you can simply say there's nothing going on here. If it were a handful of rich guys getting together or the heads of the leaders of some industry that would be one thing. The Bilderberg conferences always has the elites in every science, industry and so on that you can imagine. Do you honestly believe that they get together for 3 days with officials from our government as well as officials from other nations and do not discuss in private anything that we the public would want to be aware of?



    Actually, some attendees do go back "every" year but most participants are new invitees attending for the first time:

    Quote Content from external source:

    Approximately 130 participants will attend of whom about two-thirds come from Europe and the balance from North America and other countries. About one-third is from government and politics, and two-thirds are from finance, industry, labor, education, and communications. The meeting is private in order to encourage frank and open discussion.


    I do not see a whole lot of scientists- if any attending. See here for a list of participants from recent years.

    http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/meetings.html

    As to what they do- they discuss stuff- see here for every agenda back to 1954:

    http://www.bilderbergmeetings.org/conferences-10s.html

    They meet, network and discuss issues just like any other conference- like the much larger World Economic Forum in Davos every year- where many of the same people attend.

    The discussions are private it is true...but they are entitled to that.

    Do you think they are not entitled to private discussions?

    The media is not "controlled"- as Mick as shown press coverage of the event dating back decades...and yet since they do not have access to the discussions themselves, there is not much to report.

    So, since some "elite" meet and have private discussions- that is proof of...what exactly? and why do you fear it so?

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    Looks like our old friend Herman Van Rompuy will be attending, if anything influences his opinion on what to do in Europe, it should be known to the world. It's outrageous how many people think policy makers are entitled to mingle with the elite when decisions made there, if any, effect people of the world.

    And OF COURSE the mainstream media is controlled, the CEOs even ATTEND Bilderberg. Mick has shown LOCAL papers, which is why most of the nations have no idea what Bilderberg is. My God do you all have blinders on?

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    So you are in favour of laws restricting association and privacy then?
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    Administrator Mick's Avatar
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    I showed local papers as that's mostly what NewspaperArchive.com indexes. There's plenty of others, look in the google results. The New York Times, for example. Or USA Today.

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/politic...-tickets_x.htm

    Check the NY Times archive, quite a few stories:

    http://query.nytimes.com/search/quer...30&sort=oldest

    Or Time Magazine:
    http://search.time.com/results.html?...erberg&x=0&y=0

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    Still don't see any Bilderberg exposé articles. They mention Bilderberg 2-3 times in articles not related but no articles year after year, not even reporters taking pictures of the guests arriving, it's pathetic and no wonder the people have no idea what Bilderberg is. As said before, a small minority of local papers are the only ones who dedicate articles on Bilderberg year after year, it's all you'll find and it's all you have found.

    If this had been any other summit, we'd have coverage throughout the whole event. How convenient it is for the press not to follow Presidents and Prime Ministers and other 'public servants' to this meeting and give them 'privacy'. If it wasn't for the handful of alternative media people who bother to stake outside the hotel and get mug shots of these people turning up, most people wouldn't even believe our officials would attend these meetings, most likely you guys would be saying it's ' crazy and no proof '.

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    Administrator Mick's Avatar
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    Perhaps they are no "exposé" articels because there's nothing to expose.

    Now if you are convinced that there IS something to be exposed, then I could see how that might seem suspicious. But really it's a circular argument. "They never expose Bilderberg, hence they must be controlled by Bilderberg".

    Maybe it's just a semi-private meeting of the rich, powerful, and intelligent, where they meet to talk about the topics listed on their web site. A conference.

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    What's circular is that they go out of their way making sure nothing gets exposed, by your reasoning "perhaps because there's nothing to expose." ??

    If anything a researcher of this group can only conclude that if the Group has nothing to hide, they do their utmost to "hide that" by instructing Media CEO's not to report on them, hence doing their utmost to pose as a darn good imitation of a conspiratorial group of mega powerful persons/corporations/institutions. The attendee list forces one to be suspicious, because of the NGOs they are members of, their stated goals, and stated visions. These goals include the creation of supra-national body's and organizations, plus related International monetary funds, taxpayer generated btw, that erode national sovereignty, in favour of Regional Government (EU) and Global Governance by the UN. Beatrix organized the 10 year anniversary of the UN Earth Charter, in one of her palaces.


    Seems to me that while we the people as ordinary citizens who are forced to relinquish most if our privacy, are at least entitled to be led by example, no?


    Even aside the Logan Act and similar legal restrictions for active politicians from other parliaments and (P)Ministers outside the US, who attend such meetings during their term in office, PUBLIC office, there seems to be a moral obligation for openness.

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    Senior Member MikeC's Avatar
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    An attendee list does not force anyone to be suspicious - you choose to be suspicious of it.

    The well known purpose of the meeting is for a bunch of the rich and powerful to meet each other - having the rich and powerful on the attendance list is therefore what one should expect.

    The idea that the rich and powerful should not be allowed the same rights of privacy as anyone else smacks of hypocrisy.
    "Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
    "It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeC View Post
    An attendee list does not force anyone to be suspicious - you choose to be suspicious of it.

    The well known purpose of the meeting is for a bunch of the rich and powerful to meet each other - having the rich and powerful on the attendance list is therefore what one should expect.

    The idea that the rich and powerful should not be allowed the same rights of privacy as anyone else smacks of hypocrisy.
    Mike, you're giving me nothing to work with except some pre-cooked debunk lingo that not only insults because it doesn't address WHY I am suspicious, which I provided a brief introduction into, but mainly your outright refusal to even go and look at the bigger picture here, differentiate between specific groups of attendees, their positions, and their well documented goals, is a source of suspicion.

    Them having the right to meet in privacy is not even an issue, for all i care they have private ritual sacrifice meetings every other month; what I and many oppose to primarily, is that people in high places in government and royalty circles are forbidden to meet and decide policy that influences politics at the highest - supranational - level affecting hundreds of millions on a national and local level. Like Obama's "Endrun around congress"-speech, it bypasses national sovereignty and parliamentary democracy. If so, THEN those privacy rights must be revoked, by rule of national law. Therefor a thorough look at the walkie and talkie and writie is so essential, as it provides the only tools and data to determine whether or not power corrupts, and to what extent.
    I also mentioned the discrepancy with the complete surrender of any kind of privacy for the ordinary citizen in eg the US, but also EU.

    Of course a bunch of people meet each other, but tadaa, it's what they discuss AT THOSE MEETINGS that is of interest. The purpose, the motive, which by all signs and reference works, and action plans already in place, means outright burocratic, military and surveillence monopoly. Reason to be suspicious, and if you think it's all hunky dory, than please do not pose as a debunker, a career as a NWO bed-time story teller seems much more fitting. We either get into fact and detail, legislature on private assembly in all form and variants, debunk me there, or we will have no discussion at all.

    The original poster demands and deserves such a discusion, IMO

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthmyCamus View Post
    Just a heads up to the moderator-

    I did post a reply #14, at about 12:20 CET, awaiting moderation, but after a refresh of this page it has "vanished" ... tks
    That happens quite a lot round here.

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    I have two questions:

    Can I delete my repy #16, and how can you "say thanks" to a specific contribution?

    thanks.

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    Mr Lee H Oswald, you have arrived just in time. Your style and perseverance have been quite exemplary and inspiring to me. Great work. To ;ittle avail as we, and they, know. But let's see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthmyCamus View Post
    Mike, you're giving me nothing to work with except some pre-cooked debunk lingo that not only insults because it doesn't address WHY I am suspicious, which I provided a brief introduction into, but mainly your outright refusal to even go and look at the bigger picture here, differentiate between specific groups of attendees, their positions, and their well documented goals, is a source of suspicion.

    The original poster demands and deserves such a discusion, IMO
    If you stick around, and look around a bit, then you'll find that's the MO here. What you're dealing with (at best) is a bunch of well entrenched conservatives who are, it certainly appears, incapable of having a full discussion which takes into account all aspects of a subject. If, heaven forbid, you should show that they are wrong about something, they'll just tell you that 'it doesn't really make that much difference to the whole' or they'll put words in your mouth and then make an argument against that - straw man tactics. Then they'll try the personal snipes and attacks on your knowledge of certain subjects; or use the term 'conspiracy theorist' as a perjorative - otherwise known as ad hominem attacks.
    You'll find that anything you can bring to the table has either already been 'debunked' - whatever that means - that it's 'irrelevant' or 'groundless' or 'there's no evidence'; basically, that anything you've got to say can be swept aside with the oh so authoritative words of the seasoned 'debunker'. What you need to remember is that a 'debunker', like a lawyer, has an advocate position - and that ain't going to change. The mind is made up and closed for further business.

    Here's a good example of a straw man argument - he uses these all the time - it's easy to spot when you get the hang of it:

    Originally Posted by MikeC



    The idea that the rich and powerful should not be allowed the same rights of privacy as anyone else smacks of hypocrisy.
    Now ask him where you made that assertion - I, for one, can't find it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthmyCamus View Post
    Mr Lee H Oswald, you have arrived just in time. Your style and perseverance have been quite exemplary and inspiring to me. Great work. To ;ittle avail as we, and they, know. But let's see.
    Welcome to the party - unfortunately most of the attendees are dull as ditchwater and just as full of..., but hey-ho.

    Don't imagine you'll ever change the mind of one of these, but challenging their nonsense might encourage others passing through to see that there are huge lacunes in their 'methods'.

    If you want to delete a post, go to the 'edit post' bit at the bottom of the post you want to change and you'll see how to delete (you only have a short time window, an hour? to edit or delete a post - after that the edit option is removed). If you want to thank someone there's a button on each post saying 'thanks' - just click on it on the post you like.

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    "Now ask him where you made that assertion - I, for one, can't find it. " Nah - that wouldn't be productive, I left that one to bake and desintegrate in the sun. I know of the MO - and I challenge them hereby to grow out of the debunker bunker, and incorporate some wider understanding in the arguments, at least show interest. The MO I have sufficiently read in debates with you; now I want to see something more of the group, and if they take up the baton, it might be interesting to see what develops. If not, plain and simple waste of time, except to sharpen your senses to debunk bunk and MO.

    Not all of it - I don't mean to generalize, but an MO is an MO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lee h oswald View Post
    Welcome to the party - unfortunately most of the attendees are dull as ditchwater and just as full of..., but hey-ho.

    Don't imagine you'll ever change the mind of one of these, but challenging their nonsense might encourage others passing through to see that there are huge lacunes in their 'methods'.

    If you want to delete a post, go to the 'edit post' bit at the bottom of the post you want to change and you'll see how to delete (you only have a short time window, an hour? to edit or delete a post - after that the edit option is removed). If you want to thank someone there's a button on each post saying 'thanks' - just click on it on the post you like.
    I am well aware, just one "thank you" to the "thank you" device explanation: I wanted to on a recent post, but the button appeared quite a while AFTER that post was made, so I was looking for it in vain. I get it now, thanks.

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    The Thanks button would nor appear until your first post was approved. The first-post approval mechanism is there to prevent spam, which I have to deal with several times a day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lee h oswald View Post
    If you stick around, and look around a bit, then you'll find that's the MO here. What you're dealing with (at best) is a bunch of well entrenched conservatives who are, it certainly appears, incapable of having a full discussion which takes into account all aspects of a subject. If, heaven forbid, you should show that they are wrong about something, they'll just tell you that 'it doesn't really make that much difference to the whole' or they'll put words in your mouth and then make an argument against that - straw man tactics. Then they'll try the personal snipes and attacks on your knowledge of certain subjects; or use the term 'conspiracy theorist' as a perjorative - otherwise known as ad hominem attacks.
    You'll find that anything you can bring to the table has either already been 'debunked' - whatever that means - that it's 'irrelevant' or 'groundless' or 'there's no evidence'; basically, that anything you've got to say can be swept aside with the oh so authoritative words of the seasoned 'debunker'. What you need to remember is that a 'debunker', like a lawyer, has an advocate position - and that ain't going to change. The mind is made up and closed for further business.
    I think that's somewhat in the mind of the beholder. I like to think of myself as a scientific skeptic, judging and investigating things based on evidence and science. When this results in conclusions that conflict with the world view of others they tend to think of it as me (and others like me) as being closed minded. Really we've just reach different conclusions.

    I try to stay away from personal attacks, and remain polite, and I ask that people who post here also try to remain polite.

    And with respect lee, regarding MO, have you noticed that you are always asking "where did I say ..." but hardly anyone else does? Consider that this might be a reflection of your communication style, and not a deliberate attack on you. If you don't explicitly state things, then people are forced to read things into what you seem to be implying. Instead of pouncing on on them with "where did I say ..., you are a liar", why not simply explain with "I never said ..., I said ...., by which I meant ....". It would save a lot of trouble.

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    Mick, it's that one sentence: "Really we've just reach different conclusions."


    It's not "just" - that's the deceptive operative word in your sentence, as it allows you to bring back the complex structure of many factors involved, to just a simple one of your choosing, answering to your stated debunk MO that in your view is watery tight. To get from A to G, and then to MNOPQ, takes a bit more of a rounded and open view.

    It isn't water tight. You need to get in the boat and tred some wild waters, to even begin to get a feel of what might be at stake here. Power politics teaches you that, and geo-political awareness and imperialist motives should lift one or the other veil.


    You simply regrade to the simplistic and superficial, where any connecting of dots becomes a crime, or subject of ridicule.

    That is not sound debate, bubba.


    Other than that I do commend your most of the time civil polite attitude, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered to even register.


    People make mistakes, that's our very nature, but evil wears other masks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post

    And with respect lee, regarding MO, have you noticed that you are always asking "where did I say ..." but hardly anyone else does? Consider that this might be a reflection of your communication style, and not a deliberate attack on you. If you don't explicitly state things, then people are forced to read things into what you seem to be implying. Instead of pouncing on on them with "where did I say ..., you are a liar", why not simply explain with "I never said ..., I said ...., by which I meant ....". It would save a lot of trouble.
    Hm, you're lecturing me on how I should communicate? When you and others make specific incorrect claims about what other people have said, should they be corrected, challenged? I think I communicate quite well. If you choose to present a false version of what a contributor says (and you do), you should expect to be picked up on it.
    It is not a lack of clarity in what I'm saying, but a desire by you to misrepresent it in a way that suits your argument. That is known as 'straw man'. I can't help it if you get things wrong, but don't expect me not to point it out when you do. Yes, it would save a lot of trouble - if you desisted from this kind of tactic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lee h oswald View Post
    Hm, you're lecturing me on how I should communicate? When you and others make specific incorrect claims about what other people have said, should they be corrected, challenged? I think I communicate quite well. If you choose to present a false version of what a contributor says (and you do), you should expect to be picked up on it.
    It is not a lack of clarity in what I'm saying, but a desire by you to misrepresent it in a way that suits your argument. That is known as 'straw man'. I can't help it if you get things wrong, but don't expect me not to point it out when you do. Yes, it would save a lot of trouble - if you desisted from this kind of tactic.
    No, I WANT you to point it out, but also try to clear up the misunderstanding by explaining what you actual said, and what you mean, and/or what your real position is on the subject.

    It's not my intent to misrepresent what you say. But it's just normal human communication to try to figure out what someone means. You can help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    No, I WANT you to point it out, but also try to clear up the misunderstanding by explaining what you actual said, and what you mean, and/or what your real position is on the subject.

    It's not my intent to misrepresent what you say. But it's just normal human communication to try to figure out what someone means. You can help.
    My real position is that I don't have a real position.

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    Exclamation

    Lee, Mick,

    This thread has "wandered" off-topic. You've taken up a personal issue from past/other threads and spilled it over to this "new" one.

    I assume you realize that focus in here should be on Bilderberg, the reporting on it, both in mainstream and alternative/social media; on its organization, history, and past and current members and attendees. And rid it of bunk.

    Of course I am partly to blame, but discussing each other's MO can easily run out of hand, and in effect kill (the value of) this thread.

    Reminding eachother of maintaining sound and honest rhetorical discourse may have its place, but it mustn't "re"-place.
    Last edited by TruthmyCamus; June 1st, 2012 at 08:40 PM.

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    Interesting thread on ATS where people perpetuate the Bilderberg myth based on dubious anonymous sources via Alex Jones.

    http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread846597/pg1

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthmyCamus View Post

    Them having the right to meet in privacy is not even an issue, for all i care they have private ritual sacrifice meetings every other month; what I and many oppose to primarily, is that people in high places in government and royalty circles are forbidden to meet and decide policy that influences politics at the highest - supranational - level affecting hundreds of millions on a national and local level.

    Of course a bunch of people meet each other, but tadaa, it's what they discuss AT THOSE MEETINGS that is of interest. The purpose, the motive, which by all signs and reference works, and action plans already in place, means outright burocratic, military and surveillence monopoly.


    What evidence can you present that policy is "decided" at a Bilderberg meeting?

    Why do you assume nefarious purpose simply because its a private, off the record discussion?

    How do you reconcile making policy decisions with the fact that a good percentage of the attendees do not attend every meeting or are , in fact, first and one-time only attendees?
    Last edited by SR1419; June 2nd, 2012 at 09:24 AM.

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    Mick, why do you focus on Alex jones while you could have focused on the Bilderberg facts and the sources i relate?

    Are you that impaired?

    surely we want to get back on topic, else this will remain the twilight zone, excepting for some cooperation from abroad, and inside.

    As moderator of this site you by now may well be called an internationalist, inspired by david and Co, but a debunker?

    Bye now - my revenge will be obsolete, as does the nation state, and will confront personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TruthmyCamus View Post
    Mick, why do you focus on Alex jones while you could have focused on the Bilderberg facts and the sources i relate?
    I'm not focusing on Alex Jones, however it was an interesting related link.

    I don't see any sources that you have given. What are you referring to?

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    Why was it an "interesting" related link? Are you interested in a Bilderberg Myth?

    How do you define and describe the myth of Bilderberg?

    Why do you prefer to refer to another thread when you have all the time and reason to debunk the bunk right here, based on the information given by your guests here?

    Look, if this thread here is on Bilderberg, then one must focus on the key players, the steering committee, and the main authors of the 3-day agenda.

    What have past and present members said on what is going on in those meetings, what is discussed, and to what purpose?

    I invited in post #17 to get into detail, but you seem more interested in bunk. Jones is a loud-mouthed, very impolite fear monger, who deserves only limited- if any- attention.

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    I am interested in bunk - that's what the site is about. Clearly the Bilderberg conference is a source of bunk. You yourself describe Alex Jones as a "fear monger". So I find Bilderberg interesting no only for what it is, or what it might be, but for what various people claim it to be.

    I'm really not clear what issue you're raising though - a point of law about people meeting? Could you clarify? Name the specific individuals, what they did, and how it breaks the law.

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    Members of parliament, especially if they hold ministerial responsibility, like Dutch Minister of FA Uri Rosenthal, ought not to be present in a secretive private transnational group and conference. He is bound by oath to fulfill his job description in service of the dutch people, through parliament, to be fully accountable and open as to his activities and meetings, both within function, as well as in private business. His private activities, outside of his job decription, if he screws a mistress or two, or has a thing for young boys, might even come into the equation and force him to step down.

    In short: If Uri attends Bilderberg 2011, which he did, then he by definition does this in his ministerial function. Members of parliament may, ought to, ask him questions, which must be answered in full, and in truth. By law; it's called here parliamentary responsibility. If Uri chooses to remain in silence he violates the law and a motion of distrust may lead to him being sacked, or in his position, a cabinet crisis and even fall of the cabinet.

    But back to the main topic, namely the transnational in this case trans-Atlantic elite gathering called the Bilderberg meeting, a PhD Thesis was written by Ian Richardson, who was given access to interview 16 attendees of Bilderberg, and his scholarly dissertation - a first as far as I, and he, know - provides the best source of information I have yet encountered, alt least right upthere, in order form an informed opinion on the dynamics and moral and legal issues involved when transnational power elites hold conference, with armed to the teeth security.

    Here's the link to the thesis:

    https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/b...hesis_2009.pdf

    From the abstract:

    Quote Content from external source:

    This qualitative study is the first of its kind concerned with the interactions of
    transnational elites. It reports the findings of interviews conducted with sixteen
    members of the Atlantic transnational network . arguably the most powerful and
    interconnected of all transnational networks. In presenting an analysis of the first-hand
    accounts of these individuals, and exploring the dynamics of power within such a
    context, this study represents an original contribution to knowledge in the field.

    from the introduction:

    Quote Content from external source:


    "In the contemporary political setting, the emergence of transnationalism represents a
    significant challenge to traditional state-centred depictions of international relations.
    The absence of a global regulatory framework, and the persistent failure of collective
    action initiatives to transcend protectionist agendas in international politics, has seen the
    gradual emergence of many informal, multi-stakeholder, transnational networks. While
    the notion of a policy elite is nothing new (see Hunter, 1969; Mills, 1956), the
    development of these transnational policy networks, comprised primarily of elite
    representatives from the worlds of business, finance and politics, has received scant
    scholarly attention. Recent journalistic coverage (see Rothkopf, 2008) has ignited
    popular interest in the subject but, whether social scientists can overcome a collective
    reticence to entertain ideas of a global elite or ruling class (Sklair, 2001), remains to be
    seen. It is hoped that this study of the dynamics of power within elite transnational
    networks during the post-Cold War period will prompt others to recognise the
    significance and importance of further scholarly inquiry in this area."

    Democratic? Do the research, the math, and follow the money.

    Quote Content from external source:


    Richardson: - Lamenting the fact that groups such as Bilderberg and the Trilateral Commission have been overlooked by academia, he writes: “When one considers the elite composition of such groups, and the fact that they are credited in some quarters with considerable influence this is an astounding scholarly omission. Such an omission is almost certainly the product of a broader reluctance on the part of social scientists to engage in research related to elite groups or dominant classes.”
    Leslie Sklair, whom he quotes, is in total agreement: It is somewhat surprising to discover that of all the social classes, however defined and categorised, the group that has attracted the least serious research is the class at the very top of the pile. Terms like elite, ruling class, and capitalist class have been out of favour in the social sciences for some time and the idea of a global ruling class appears, frankly, ridiculous to many capable scholars (56).

    I think there are two factors at work here: (1) many scholars and/or heads or universities are routinely invited to the gatherings and rub elbows with the very elite to which we speak; thus, they wouldn’t want to upset their bosses or their more tenured and influential colleagues. (2) Traditionally, talk about the Bilderbergers and the Trilaterals has been the domain of conspiracy theorists. Respectability is essential in scholarly circles. Therefore, out of fear of being ostracized, they deliberately chose to leave it alone. The same phenomenon is at work for other groups such as Freemasonry and the Bavarian Illuminati."

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    cont. from previous post

    -- Similarly, Bilderberg regular Denis Healey (who was also on Bilderberg’s Steering Committee), admitted recently: “To say we were striving for a one-world government is exaggerated, but not wholly unfair. Those of us in Bilderberg felt we couldn’t go on forever fighting one another for nothing and killing people and rendering millions homeless. So we felt that a single community throughout the world would be a good thing.”
    The next fifty pages amounts to a review of relevant – mostly sociological – literature regarding elites, both national and transnational, as well as the methodology and conclusions arrived at by various researchers. Dry material, admittedly, but certainly worth a skimming if only to get an idea of the way in which scholars think and write about such things.
    The occupations of the Bilderberg attendees interviewed in Richardson’s thesis, are:

    • The editors of three national newspapers and a financial journalist
    • Two professors
    • Two foreign ministers
    • A minister of defence
    • The head of an international institution e.g. World Bank/IMF/NATO
    • The governor of a central bank
    • The chairmen of four international banks
    • An EU Commissioner
    • The head of a policy institute
    • An ambassador
    • The chairman of a business federation
    • The CEO of a television network
    • The chairmen of three international business conglomerates (109)

    The interviews are also transcribed and included in the text, interspersed with commentary and analysis, and divided into sections. So, for instance, one can read what the Bilderbergers have to say about “States, power and legitimacy” (123-8), or “Global governance – hard and soft regulation” (128-131), etc.
    One example in the latter section, quotes a Bilderberg member thus:
    [A]s I see international relations in the twenty first century, I think the state is losing the protagonism it had during the previous system; we are now transitioning to a new system of international relations. And in this new system, there are new actors taking power from the state: upwards to the supranational organisations and institutions and downwards to communities, individuals and, of course, multinational corporations (131).”
    “New actors taking power from the state” – how wonderful. And whom do you think will have a fair share in the new global arrangement, the supranational behemoths or communities and individuals?
    Another interviewee actually admits and agrees with the major gripe that most people have about the Bilderbergers:
    I think these networks are rather ominous from the point of view of democratic accountability because you don’t know who’s saying what, and why, and to whom they are accountable for what they’ve said (135).
    That the very idea of Bilderberg is a slap in the face to democracy didn’t seem to stop him from attending, however, and he attempts to justify it by claiming there’s an upside: “because so much talking is done and there are so many informal contacts, the risk of breakdown in the international system into war and protectionism is much lower.”


    Does he really expect us to believe that one out-weighs the other? Evidently so. “Don’t worry about it” was the retort at the 2011 meeting after being shouted at by a protester that the meetings were undemocratic.
    Taking the ridiculousness even further, one attendee interviewed by Richardson actually had the insolence to suggest:
    It is very much in the public interest that powerful people get together in a private environment and exchange views. Are they [elite networks] in the interests of mankind? I think they are. (136)
    There’s more too; much, much more – straight from horse’s mouth. The quotations continue until page 212.

    http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/Blog/?p=4388

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    I really must apologize. But can you state what you feel needs debunking here? Is it that you think the meetings are illegal, and the press is ignoring it? Or that they have a huge influence on global politics, and/or the press is ignoring that?

    What do you think should be done?

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