I was wondering about this. What is the capacity of the ballast tanks? I've had a quick look but haven't really found anything.Originally Posted by Jay Reynolds
I was wondering about this. What is the capacity of the ballast tanks? I've had a quick look but haven't really found anything.
JRBids (March 25th, 2013)
The evergreen supertanker appears to be able to carry 20.000 gallon :
"Evergreen continues their road trip, uh, air trip, with the 20,000-gallon 747 air tanker they call a “Supertanker”."
http://wildfiretoday.com/2009/07/30/...rs-world-tour/
Although they are also investigating for doing "Weather Modification" as they say on their own website, I would indeed say it isn't the most cost-effective approach they have with the supertanker. It seems to me the use of tanks is used for stability, since the main purpose is firefighting, where you would be "spraying" water in a very short time, but that is all a wild guess.
First of all, there is really no denying that ballast testing takes place. I am a ship's engineer, and have participated in ballast testing of a new-built ship. It is a big deal. When a ship is built, the weight of all equipment, including wiring, piping, major loads such as engines, etc, including such things as normal galley stoves, even bedding, is all calculated.
However. There are always unknowns. What if the wall panels were slightly heavier, what if the cabinetry was slightly lighter? For that reason, an ACTUAL test has to be made, because during the testing, the ACTUAL response is recorded to produce a complete system of load charts which the Captain will use to calculate stability of the vessel under any particular loading. Before every voyage, the current loads as well as their positions on the ship, are input into these charts or modern software, and the expected stability is found to be acceptable or not. The key terms here are center of gravity and "righting moment", which is the tendency for the ship to "right" itself after the sea causes it to lean over. The center of gravity must be low enough to develop sufficient "righting moment", a counteracting force which brings the ship back upright and prevents a capsize.
I am absolutely certain that, despite differences in an airplane's situation as a bouyany object on the sea compared to a ship's, ballast testing does take place.
Examples:
During testing, this plane crashed, (crash during takeoff, plane stalled due to too much weight aft of the aft center of gravity)text describes electric pumps and gravity flow being used to transfer water between tanks:
http://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/f...t/AAB0401.html
Here is yet another example. The original build number 1 for the 747 sits decaying in Seattle. It was never sold. Folks there want to turn it into a museum. Some of the original ballast barrels are still installed in the plane. The caption reads:
Source(picture #6 of 11):Ballast barrels used to shift weight inside the plane during 5,000 hours of flight testing are all that's left inside of 747 RA001. The Museum of Flight will seek more of them when it restores the plane to its original 1969 flight-test configuration.
http://seattletimes.com/html/pacific...47plane09.html
These ballast barrels are not something mysterious. They are not something new. They are not something out of the ordinary. To portray them without explanation, without attribution, and without sourcing the origin of the photos is, at least on the "originator" level, a public disservice, if not an outright intentional deception.
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
Yup. Ballast tanks are about people sized on flight test aircraft so the airliner structure in its passenger configuration can be tested.The tanks weigh more than normal people when full of water but pretty sure they need to be a similar size for a different reason .. to get them in. That means they need to get the tanks in through the passenger doors rather than huge great panels or whatever you could build for a custom modified spraying plane.
Plus, the load distribution can't exceed the load limit per square foot of the floor. So in addition to the door size limit, you also can't just put one big heavy tank anywhere. And those floor load limits are surprisingly low since they also multiply up to the maximum g load limit. So a floor that is placarded to hold Max 300 pounds and the plane has a max g load limit of 2.5 positive g's, then that floor has been demonstrated to handle 750 pounds.
In a "Global Skywatch" conference call on 3/18/13, John Massaria discussed these ballast barrel photos. here is what he said:
I have been unable to find any photos of the tanks that Massaria is speaking of.
I don't know why he said this. Perhaps he knows of such photos, perhaps he has a false recollection of such a thing, or perhaps he is fabricating this story.
The only thing close to a "chemical" sign I have seen associated with these ballast barrels is this example where we said that something was photoshopped.
The picture on the left is faked, it has been clearly photoshopped to insert the words "hazmat inside". You can tell this by the way the Hazmat text is blurred after it was put in place.
The original source photo is here, from 2005, at an airliner enthusiast site:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein...-LR/0855967/L/
The earliest source of the image after the photoshopped "Hazmat- Inside" text was added is here, from 2005:
http://www.chemtrails-info.de/chemtr...otobeweise.htm
At the German site which first carried the fake photo with a Hazmat sign photoshopped in, there is an additional "closeup" photo of the Hazmat text:
Bottom line is that there are no photos available that I can find which have ballast barrels and anything resembling a "DOT tag" as claimed by John Massaria.
There is only this faked image from a German website.
Question: John Massaria, in his own words says that he "misrepresented" the ballast tank photos in his video. Now, why does he misrepresent the Hazmat sign as being on a tank, when it was clearly photoshopped onto a wall?
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
I was wondering about the ballast tanks so some rough calculations could be done on the amount of coverage you could get from them if they were used for spraying. I did some calculations based on the Evergreen capacity and the coverage area a fb user gave me and it came out at a tiny amount per sq metre. I didn't hear back from them after that.
In the same "Global Skywatch" conference call on 3/18/13, John Massaria also said:
Below, I give my best shot at describing what the equipment shown is for. Some comments:@ 52: 45 minutes- "Some of these tanks, they appear to only have only one "in" from the top, maybe they don't appear, see the whole entire picture, but, I can't imagine, I don't see any solenoid valves on those, they look like they were just ejecting chemical or water out the top. Look, I don't want to say anything about those photos, but, they look very suspicious.
- the tanks are not meant to be pressurized past about 200 psi
-the vent system shows that this system is not meant to hold pressure, in the event of an overfill, there is a catchment tank
-The 2 inch PVC main lines and plastic vent tubing are not suitable for hydrocarbons or dangerous chemicals
-The 2 inch main lines leading into the tanks show that a liquid is being transferred, not a gas
-the system is not suitable for a powder
In all respects, the system looks exactly like what it is, a system for transfer of ordinary water for ballast simulations in flight tests.
Question: John Massaria had plenty of discussion here about these photos, he admits that he previously misrepresented these photos, then why does he continue the misrepresentation of these photos by making claims like those above?
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
For the same reason that Moonstar Madison ignores what is a fake chemplane and calls the YouTube 'disinformation'?
"Knowledge is the antidote for fear."
Just for info, the following video has been posted on youtube claiming that Facebook is censoring posts when they are actually just removing the photographs breaching copyrights. https://www.youtube.com/watchfeature...&v=coUyXdjjkzU Of course, when the photograph is removed any comments posted to it also disappear. That just seems to feed the paranoia as in this posting on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/WhyInTheWorl..._comment_reply
Now I see that the youtube video has been removed. Perhaps they have finally figured it out, or maybe Youtube is censoring videos about Facebook censoring videos.
It's all very confusing.....
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
In the comments on the FB link this shows up
Lena Simovic I didn't save it...I shared it from another person's profile. And that individual mentioned that the photo had been removed from their profile as well, & that their account had been frozen. Then they had to sign a contract with Facebook promising that they would never post it again. Is this a "Copyright" issue?
And one person suggested that a bunch of folks post it. These folks KNEW that there was a copyright problem and yet the continue to post it--duh.
You Tube is sensitive to more things than FB is. My name was slandered in some You Tube cartoons and after reporting it, the poster ended up losing their you tube account. I think some of them managed to get their IP banned, because they moved to other video sites. And the reports were repeated and they moved again. I think that they ran out of sites.
"Knowledge is the antidote for fear."
The History of this fake is well-known and descriped here:The original source photo is here, from 2005, at an airliner enthusiast site:
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Boein...-LR/0855967/L/
The earliest source of the image after the photoshopped "Hazmat- Inside" text was added is here, from 2005:
http://www.chemtrails-info.de/chemtr...otobeweise.htm
http://psiram.com/en/index.php/Chemtrail#Chemtrail_Fakes
The "Freigeist-Forum" http://www.freigeistforum.com doesn´t allow Search-Engines to crawl through. They also have a great "members-only-section". It s not easy to get an account to this forum, they only accept people they know. It is a esoteric UFO, Free-Energy, Anti-zionism up to rigth-wing Forum. very ugly.In February 2008, chemtrail-proponent and internet message board moderator Peter Platte published a photo of uncertain origin (allegedly from a Vietnam War veteran) showing the interior of a chemtrail bomber (The 'Vietnam veteran' refers to one Tim White, a widely used reference in chemtrail circles. This Tim White is Timothy Patrick White, born on March 5th, 1947, a resident of Denver (Colorado). He is a fundamental Christian US patriot, well-known proponent of confused conspiracy theories who uses several pseudonyms and was sentenced for possession of narcotics and stalking).
Platte wrote in this message board: [...] this is simply sensational. This photo is the dream of every ct activist. We have been waiting for this for years and it looks like there are more disclosures to come. Judging from the plane's interior measures it seems to be a Boeing KC 767 of the US-Air Force, one of 200. Up to now we only knew that chemicals used for spraying were filled in containers by UN inspectors at manufacturers' sites, with containers sealed and shipped to the different operating sites afterwards. Now we also know what these containers look like and how they are connected in series and linked to the elect. system for controlling. I still can hardly believe that we now have a photo that is clear evidence of how spraying is done and how the system works. A really big 'Thank you' to the former Air Force Pilot who provided the photo. Peter [...] Other board members added: [...]That's the critter from inside. One can spot words like "SPRAYER 1" and "HAZARD INSIDE". Creepy.[...] Great picture, no doubt!!
The picture, however, was a simple fake of a copyrighted photo published on the internet.[27] According to her own accounts, a user of the Freigeistforum (free thinker board) called fighthamster simply added fake inscriptions to two photos of a Boeing 777 passenger jet which, in the course of approval procedures, was equipped with measurement equipment and water containers serving as dead weight. Platte, totally uncritical and gullible, embarrassed himself because he did not even notice the regular portholes visible in the photo.
Jay Reynolds (March 21st, 2013),Jazzy (March 30th, 2013),Ross Marsden (March 21st, 2013)
I've sold a few farms where the buyers wanted the soil tested for chemicals because they wanted to do organic farming. THey had to hire a private company, and they did not test to see what was in the soil, they tested the soil for specific substances. The buyer had to specifically state what they were looking for.I didn't know that EPA will test your soil for you, in fact, I don't think they do. It seems her real name may be Amanda 'Bayes' or something like this ?
In Texas, the state AG dept will do some tests, but you have to pay for them and you have use containers that they supply. It is so easy to contaminate samples.
"Knowledge is the antidote for fear."
Sometimes Francis Mangels refers to his lab results as EPA data. It is actually a private lab certified by the EPA to do these tests.I didn't know that EPA will test your soil for you, in fact, I don't think they do. It seems her real name may be Amanda 'Bayes' or something like this ?
That could be, but wouldn't she need to PAY for them?
"Knowledge is the antidote for fear."
!Now I see that the youtube video has been removed." Must have been an incomplete linkJay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=coUyXdjjkzU
Where did they get the idea about 'frozen lakes of methane' in Siberia? Methane doesn't freeze till almost -300 F, at one atmosphere of pressure, so how can there be frozen lakes under the tundra?
I guess this is what they saw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FM0hczFNDZI
The ice and frozen tundra has methane trapped under it. It seems that a lot of it is biological in origin. Sort of like the methane in the flaming tap water
"Knowledge is the antidote for fear."
According to George Orwell in his novel "1984", doublethink is:
“ To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that <Truth> was impossible and that the <Movement> was the guardian of <Truth>, to forget whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself – that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word 'doublethink' involved the use of doublethink.”
“ The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them... To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies – all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doublethink
That is how, don't care about the why..
Last edited by Jazzy; March 22nd, 2013 at 01:22 AM.
Jay Reynolds (March 22nd, 2013)
Methane IS soluble under pressure though, making associations with ice.
Clathrates have been found to occur naturally in large quantities. Around 6.4 trillion (6.4x1012) tonnes of methane is trapped in deposits of methane clathrate on the deep ocean floor. Such deposits can be found on the Norwegian continental shelf in the northern headwall flank of the Storegga Slide. Clathrates can also exist as permafrost, as at the Mallik gas hydrate field in the Mackenzie Delta of northwestern Canadian Arctic. These natural gas hydrates are seen as a potentially vast energy resource, but an economical extraction method has so far proven elusive. Hydrocarbon clathrates cause problems for the petroleum industry, because they can form inside gas pipelines, often resulting in obstructions. Deep sea deposition of carbon dioxide clathrate has been proposed as a method to remove this greenhouse gas from the atmosphere and control climate change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_hydrate
Deeply buried pockets of frozen tundra might well contain a reservoir of methane we wouldn't like to meet. It would be better to harvest and burn it and accept the CO2 burden, or harvest it as a plastic monomer, rather than simply allow it to unfreeze in rising global temperatures, to do its deadly work.
Or better still, not to allow global temperatures to rise in the first place. Without delay.
Last edited by Jazzy; March 22nd, 2013 at 03:12 AM.
Perhaps it is to do with methane hydrate under oceans that the Japanese have recently announced they can extract??
Given the chemmie "confusion" (deliberate or otherwise) about most things to do with anything scientific??
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction." -Pascal
"It is very important not to mistake hemlock for parsley; but not at all so to believe or not in God" - Diderot
So if underground oil comes from dinosaurs does underground methane come from dinosaur farts??Methane IS soluble under pressure though, making associations with ice.
Clathrates have been found to occur naturally in large quantities. Around 6.4 trillion (6.4x1012) tonnes of methane is trapped in deposits of methane clathrate on the deep ocean floor. Such deposits can be found on the Norwegian continental shelf in the northern headwall flank of the Storegga Slide. Clathrates can also exist as permafrost, as at the Mallik gas hydrate field in the Mackenzie Delta of northwestern Canadian Arctic. These natural gas hydrates are seen as a potentially vast energy resource, but an economical extraction method has so far proven elusive. Hydrocarbon clathrates cause problems for the petroleum industry, because they can form inside gas pipelines, often resulting in obstructions. Deep sea deposition of carbon dioxide clathrate has been proposed as a method to remove this greenhouse gas from the atmosphere and control climate change.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clathrate_hydrate
Deeply buried pockets of frozen tundra might well contain a reservoir of methane we wouldn't like to meet. It would be better to harvest and burn it and accept the CO2 burden, than simply allow it to unfreeze in rising global temperatures to do its deadly work. Or better still, not allow those temperatures to rise.
Sorry but I'm Dave and I am here all week.
I'll get my coat then???
JRBids (March 22nd, 2013)
Well, it comes from many different sources. Methanogenic bacteria and archaea are found not only in animal guts but they are widespread in Nature. Anaerobic degradation of organic waste at the bottom of lakes and swamps produces a lot of methane.
LOL. Yes, but more accurately the heating from beneath by the earth, the compression and fractionation of organic material layers in the deep subsoils. Everything gets distilled off at a subduction zone, for instance, but also where crustal folding takes place, where subsurface material also gets pushed down into the melt. It isn't impossible for the rising methane to "surface" beneath frozen tundra, and settle happily into it.
I remember you are big.Sorry but I'm Dave and I am here all week.
Have you met my friend, Mahatma?I'll get my coat then???
Last edited by Jazzy; March 22nd, 2013 at 04:10 AM.
I think he was talking about this photo as to the label (Patent Number) : http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...Q9QEwBA&dur=84In the same "Global Skywatch" conference call on 3/18/13, John Massaria also said:
Below, I give my best shot at describing what the equipment shown is for. Some comments:
- the tanks are not meant to be pressurized past about 200 psi
-the vent system shows that this system is not meant to hold pressure, in the event of an overfill, there is a catchment tank
-The 2 inch PVC main lines and plastic vent tubing are not suitable for hydrocarbons or dangerous chemicals
-The 2 inch main lines leading into the tanks show that a liquid is being transferred, not a gas
-the system is not suitable for a powder
In all respects, the system looks exactly like what it is, a system for transfer of ordinary water for ballast simulations in flight tests.
Question: John Massaria had plenty of discussion here about these photos, he admits that he previously misrepresented these photos, then why does he continue the misrepresentation of these photos by making claims like those above?
and this one is the has no hoses... http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...Q9QEwBw&dur=98
The first one is from where they spray a flame retardant on buildings to help protect them from wild fires, the second is more ballast tanks
http://www.flickr.com/photos/feuerwe...57621902624044
Looks like the same tanks to me---that is from an AIR SHOW in Germany---how can it be top secret if it is shown to the public?
A method and apparatus for aerial fire suppression utilizing a potable fire retardant chemical dispensing system, readily adaptable, without extensive aircraft modification, to various makes of aircraft, for dispensing current types of forest and range fire fighting chemicals. The aerial delivery system is self contained and reusable. It enables cargo/utility aircraft to carry and dump a load, under control. The aerial delivery system is capable of attachment at the wing box, pressurized delivery from the nozzles, and nozzles directed straight downward.
"Knowledge is the antidote for fear."
The first one is from where they spray a flame retardant on buildings to help protect them from wild fires, the second is more ballast tanks
http://www.flickr.com/photos/feuerwe...57621902624044
Looks like the same tanks to me---that is from an AIR SHOW in Germany---how can it be top secret if it is shown to the public?
A method and apparatus for aerial fire suppression utilizing a potable fire retardant chemical dispensing system, readily adaptable, without extensive aircraft modification, to various makes of aircraft, for dispensing current types of forest and range fire fighting chemicals. The aerial delivery system is self contained and reusable. It enables cargo/utility aircraft to carry and dump a load, under control. The aerial delivery system is capable of attachment at the wing box, pressurized delivery from the nozzles, and nozzles directed straight downward.
Cairenn- read what I wrote.
John may have been talking about THIS photo.... the one Jay Shows is not even in the video... man what is wrong with you people? http://12160.info/profiles/blogs/wea...cation-history
I have already pointed out a page where variations of that picture are shown
http://debunkingchemtrails.blogspot....interiors.html
If you will notice the picture you are referring to is COPYRIGHTED. That normally means a COMMERCIAL photo, not one taken on the sly
In fact it looks like version of that picture were in the newspaper--some secret
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Airbu...cb0ea6dcd94164
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/slides...-A380-3281.php
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/slides...oto-646549.php
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/slides...oto-646552.php
http://www.seattlepi.com/news/slides...oto-646588.php
Last edited by Cairenn; March 24th, 2013 at 12:17 AM.
"Knowledge is the antidote for fear."
Noticed another posting on Why in......zzzz, of the Airliners.net photo which was removed. Check Whyitwats reply
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php...type=1&theater
That kind of talk will get them labelled as shills eventually.
The photo you link to shows a patent number, NOT a D.O.T. sticker. There is no need to wonder what John Massaria "may have been talking about". This is what he said:
D.O.T. stands for "Department of Transportation". The D.O.T. has regulations and a classification scheme for labeling hazardous material. D.O.T. stickers should be familiar to anyone who lives here in the USA, they are seen on any truck, ship or plane which carries hazardous materials. They look like this:
There are NO D.O.T. tags on ANY of the ballast barrels in ANY of these photos.
Massaria spent several days discussing these photos, we showed and discussed them over and over. Why did John Massaria try to portray a photoshopped version of a COPYRIGHTED photo as showing a "D.O.T. tag" when seeking support from his friends yet Massaria NEVER MADE MENTION of such a tag during the discussion here?
I think he just makes stuff up.
You are correct, that particular photo has no hoses. But John Massaria DID NOT mention a tank which "has no hoses". A tank which has no hoses wouldn't be suspicious, it would in fact have absolutely no utility at all other than storage!
Yet John Massaria did assert this:
The tanks unregistered shows do indeed have have "no hoses". But Massaria said the tanks he saw were "ejecting chemical or water out the top". The photo which 'unregistered' shows have no such facility, they appear to be static weights which are also used in these tests. The A-380 water ballast syatem 'unregistered' directs us to is for an aircraft which has two decks.
It is likely that the A-380 does not require all tanks on all decks to transfer water ballast to achieve the necessary testing. In fact, the series of photos which 'unregistered' directs us to indeed shows that some of the tanks used in that test DO have solenoid valves and piping which comes out of the bottom of the tanks, indicating they are being used to transfer a liquid. Furthermore, the equipment is clearly labeled as an AIRBUS FLIGHT TEST, and as Cairenn pointed out, these were published in newspapers. After discussing these photos for three days, Massaria surely would have become familiar enough with them to ask
Again, Massaria discussed these photos on seven pages of dialogue. Massaria NEVER mentioned the words "hose", "solenoid", or "tags" during that discussion.
Where did he come up with those notions when discussing the issue with his friends? I cannot answer. You should direct those questions to him.
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ...Mark Twain
Reminds me of Answers in Genesis, with their list of things NOT to use to argue against evolution.
That kind of talk will get them labelled as shills eventually.Originally Posted by Danny55
Noticed another posting on Why in......zzzz, of the Airliners.net photo which was removed. Check Whyitwats reply
http://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php...type=1&theater
Madisonstar Moon seems to be on a mission to claim every single "Tanks on a Plane" as evidence of chemtrails. Here she shows some ferry fuel tanks:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater
Which is taken from here:
http://www.jetaviationservices.com/ferrytank.html
She's actually got a very nice collection, it's just rather disingenuous of her to post them without explanation. Like this one:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
Which is not a tank at all, it's NOAAs Ozone Differential Absorption Lidar,
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/news/2006/texaqs/
And this one:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater
Another NOAA image, this one is: "Dr. Lubchenco launches a dropsonde instrument from a NOAA WP-3 research aircraft."
http://www.commerce.gov/media/photo/...earch-aircraft
All of here images can easily be found by dragging the photo into Google images
Belfrey (March 26th, 2013),davefb (March 26th, 2013),lotek (March 30th, 2013),Mattnik (March 26th, 2013),pseacraft (March 26th, 2013),Ross Marsden (March 26th, 2013),Trailspotter (March 30th, 2013)
Barrel photo again:
http://freedom-articles.toolsforfree...aying-program/
And what can one DO about chemtrails? Well for starters, buy my STUFF!
"On a personal level, you can also take this amazing natural supplement called ChemBuster – a combination of herbal and homeopathic remedies deliberately designed to combat chemtrails."
"And what can one DO about chemtrails? Well for starters, buy my STUFF!
"On a personal level, you can also take this amazing natural supplement called ChemBuster – a combination of herbal and homeopathic remedies deliberately designed to combat chemtrails." "
Only $27.00 for a 1 oz bottle. Cheap at half the price!
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