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Thread: I bet you can't name a conspiracy you believe in . . .

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    Moderator George B's Avatar
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    I bet you can't name a conspiracy you believe in . . .

    I bet you can't name a conspiracy you believe in . . . if you believe in any please list them? . . .I would like to see your lists. . .

    What I bet some of you may think about people and their conspiracies . . .


    1) Conspiracies generally have insufficient evidence to support their existence ;therefore, they are not to be believed . . .


    2) People are easily lead to believe conspiracies about things that fascinate them . . . and they do not use good judgement because they are lead by their emotions . . .


    3) Certain personality types are more likely to believe in conspiracies than other personality types . . .


    4) Younger people are more likely to believe in conspiracies than older people . . .


    5) People with more formal education are less likely to believe in conspiracies . . .


    6) People who are religious are more likely to believe in conspiracies . . .


    7) People who promote conspiracies have hidden agendas . . .



    (30) conspiracies are listed below to help you with some examples . . .


    Quote Content from external source:

    The greatest Conspiracies . . . History's greatest conspiracy theories
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict...n-history.html


    1) 11 September 2001 WTC Attack . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septemb...iracy_theories
    2) The assassination of John F Kennedy . . .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F....iracy_theories
    3) A flying saucer crashed at Roswell in 1947 . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roswell_UFO_Incident
    4) Nasa faked the moon landings. . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_la...iracy_theories
    5) The Illuminati and the New World Order . . .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wor...piracy_theory)
    6) The Jesus conspiracy - novel (The Da Vinci Code) . . .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_vinci_code
    7) Diana, Princess of Wales, was murdered . . .
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_o...iracy_theories
    8) Elvis Presley faked his own death . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elvis_Presley_phenomenon
    9) Operation Northwoods - A genuine conspiracy involving a plan by the Joint Chiefs of Staff . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods
    10) MK-ULTRA - The code name for a covert mind-control and chemical interrogation research program . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA
    11) North American Union . . .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Union
    12) Shakespeare was somebody else . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakesp...rship_question
    13) The disappearance of Shergar (race horse) On February 8, 1983 . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shergar
    14) Paul is dead - “Paul is dead” replaced by a look-alike and sound-
    alike. McCartney’s death . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_is_dead
    15) The July 7, 2005 Tube bombings (London) . . . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_July_...ondon_bombings
    16) The Moscow apartment bombings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_apartment_bombings
    17) Black or unmarked helicopters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_helicopters
    18) Harold Wilson (British Labor Party Leader)
    was a Soviet agent http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Wilson
    19) The Protocols of the Elders of Zion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pro...Elders_of_Zion
    20) The peak oil conspiracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Simmons
    21) Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_H...owledge_debate
    22) The Philadelphia Experiment - the US Navy destroyer Eldridge was
    rendered invisible http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phi...hia_Experiment
    23) Pan Am Flight 103 - Lockerbie in southern Scotland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_Am_103
    24) Fluoridation - Fluoride is commonly added to drinking water http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_f...on_controversy
    25) The 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami http://freeinternetpress.com/story.php?sid=2633
    26) Plastic coffins and concentration camps - Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema) http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/FEMA_concentration_camps
    27) HAARP - Alaska, is the Pentagon's High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Fr...search_Program
    28) The Aids virus was created in a laboratory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIDS_or...ific_consensus
    29) Global warming is a hoax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_...spiracy_theory
    30) Chemtrails. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemtra...spiracy_theory




    Additional information found below. . . .


    1) September 11, 2001 - Thanks to the power of the web and live broadcasts on television, the conspiracy theories surrounding the events of 9/11 - when terrorists attacked the World Trade Centre in New York and the Pentagon in Washington - have surpassed those of Roswell and JFK in traction. Despite repeated claims by al-Qaeda that it planned, organised and orchestrated the attacks, several official and unofficial investigations into the collapse of the Twin Towers which concluded that structural failure was responsible and footage of the events themselves, the conspiracy theories continue to grow in strength.


    2) The assassination of John F Kennedy - The 35th President of the United States was shot on Friday, November 22, 1963, in Dallas, Texas at 12.30pm . He was fatally wounded by gunshots while riding with his wife - Jacqueline Bouvier Kennedy - in a motorcade. The ten-month investigation of the Warren Commission of 1963 to 1964, the United States House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) of 1976 to 1979, and other government investigations concluded that the President had been assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald - who was himself shot dead by Jack Ruby while in police custody.


    3) A flying saucer crashed at Roswell in 1947 - The event that kick-started more than a half century of conspiracy theories surrounding unidentified flying objects (UFOs). Something did crash at Roswell, New Mexico, sometime before July 7, 1947


    4) Nasa faked the moon landings - People who think that the Apollo moon landings were not all that they seemed at the time believe that Nasa faked some or all of the landings.


    5) The Illuminati and the New World Order - A conspiracy in which powerful and secretive groups (the Illuminati, the Bilderberg Group and other shadowy cabals) are plotting to rule mankind with a single world government.


    6) The Jesus conspiracy - The theory that launched a blockbusting novel (The Da Vinci Code), a film of the same name and a plagiarism battle in the courts (with the authors of the Holy Blood and holy grail).


    7) Diana, Princess of Wales, was murdered - Why won't this one go away? Despite an official inquiry that found no evidence of a plot by MI6 or any other entity to murder the princess and Dodi Fayed in 1997, fevered speculation continues.


    8) Elvis Presley faked his own death - What can we say? A persistent belief is that "the King" did not die in 1977. Many fans persist in claiming he is still alive, that he went into hiding for various reasons. This claim is allegedly backed up by thousands of so-called sightings.


    9) Operation Northwoods - A genuine conspiracy involving a plan by the Joint Chiefs of Staff to launch a fake Cuban terror campaign on American soil to persuade the US public to support an invasion against Castro. The plan involved bombings and the simultaneous hijacking and blowing up of American airliners.


    10) MK-ULTRA - The code name for a covert mind-control and chemical interrogation research programme, run by the Office of Scientific Intelligence. The programme began in the early 1950s, continuing at least through the late 1960s, using US citizens as test subjects. Project MK-ULTRA was brought first to wide public attention in 1975 by Congress and by the Rockefeller Commission. Investigative efforts were hampered by the fact that CIA Director Richard Helms ordered all MK-ULTRA files destroyed in 1973. . . .


    11) North American Union - The North American Union (NAU) is a theoretical regional union of Canada, Mexico and the United States similar in structure to the European Union, sometimes including a common currency called the amero. Theorists who believe that the three countries are planning for this believe that it is part of a global conspiracy to set up something called the New World Order (NWO). Officials from all three nations have repeatedly denied that there are plans to create a NAU . . .


    12) Shakespeare was somebody else - Who really was the English language's greatest writer? Among the numerous alternative candidates that have been proposed Francis Bacon, Christopher Marlowe, . . .


    13) The disappearance of Shergar - On February 8, 1983, a group of men wearing balaclavas and armed with guns turned up at the Ballymany Stud Farm in Co Kildare, Ireland and took a hostage – Jim Fitzgerald, the stud's head groom. "We've come for Shergar," they said. "We want £2m for him." Shergar was arguably the greatest racehorse to have ever lived. But 25 years after he was kidnapped from Ballymany the mystery of exactly what happened to him after he was snatched that night still lingers.


    14) Paul is dead - “Paul is dead” is an urban legend alleging that Paul McCartney died in a car crash 1966 and was replaced by a look-alike and sound-alike. "Evidence" for McCartney’s death consists of “clues” found among the Beatles’ many recordings.


    15) The July 7, 2005 Tube bombings - One of the supposed mysteries surrounding the 7/7 attacks is this image, used by several news outlets, of the bombers entering Luton station on their way to London at around 7.20am on July 7. Theorists claim this image is fake . . .


    16) The Moscow apartment bombings - Former GRU officer Aleksey Galkin and former FSB officer the late Alexander Litvinenko (who was killed with Polonium-210 in London in November 2006) and other whistle-blowers from the Russian government and security services have asserted that the 1999 Russian apartment bombings were operations perpetrated by the FSB . .


    17) Black or unmarked helicopters - The concept became popular in the American militia movement, and in associated political circles, in the 1990s as an alleged symbol and warning sign of a military takeover of part or all of the United States.


    18) Harold Wilson was a Soviet agent - Soviet defector Anatoliy Golitsyn is thought to have claimed that Wilson was a KGB spy. He further claimed that Hugh Gaitskell was assassinated by the KGB so that he could be replaced as Labour leader by Harold Wilson. Furthermore, former MI5 officer Peter Wright claimed in his memoirs - Spycatcher - that he had been told that Wilson was a Soviet agent. MI5 repeatedly investigated Wilson over the course of several years . . .


    19) The Protocols of the Elders of Zion - Despite being utterly discredited for at least 100 years, belief in this document has proved remarkably resilient on the internet. The text takes the form of an instruction manual to a new member of the "elders," describing how they will run the world through control of the media and finance, and replace the traditional social order . . .


    20) The peak oil conspiracy - Peak oil (a theory in itself) is the supposed peak of oil production during and after which demand for oil outstrips supply sending prices through the roof.


    21) Pearl Harbor was allowed to happen - Theorists believe that President Franklin Roosevelt provoked the Japanese attack on the US naval base in Hawaii in December 1941, knew about it in advance and covered up his failure to warn his fleet commanders. He apparently needed the attack to provoke Hitler into declaring war on the US . . .


    22) The Philadelphia Experiment - Popularised by the Charles Berlitz novel of the same name, conspiracy theorists believe that during an experiment at the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard in October 1943, the US Navy destroyer Eldridge was rendered invisible.


    23) Pan Am Flight 103 - Pan Am Flight 103 was Pan American's third daily scheduled transatlantic flight from Heathrow to New York John F. Kennedy International Airport. On December 21, 1988, the aircraft flying this route - a Boeing 747 - was destroyed by a bomb, killing all 259 people on board and 11 people on the ground. The remains landed around Lockerbie in southern Scotland. A popular theory for which no evidence has been produced suggests that the US Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) had set up a protected drug route from Europe to the United States - allegedly called Operation Corea - which allowed Syrian drug dealers to ship heroin to the US using Pan Am flights.


    24) Fluoridation - Fluoride is commonly added to drinking water as a way to reduce tooth decay. However, there has been some evidence that there could be some harmful side effects from fluoride and conspiracy theorists believe that this information is known


    25) The 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami - A popular theory in the Muslim world is that the tsunami could have been caused by an Indian nuclear experiment in which Israeli and American nuclear experts participated.


    26) Plastic coffins and concentration camps - Just outside Atlanta, Georgia, beside a major road are approximately 500,000 plastic coffins. Stacked neatly and in full view, the coffins are allegedly owned by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (Fema).


    27) HAARP - More than 200 miles east of Anchorage, Alaska, is the Pentagon's High-frequency Active Auroral Research Program


    28. The Aids virus was created in a laboratory - Based on the theories of Dr William Campbell Douglass, many believe that that HIV was genetically engineered in 1974 by the World Health Organisation.


    29) Global warming is a hoax - Some climate change doubters believe that man-made global warming is a conspiracy designed to soften up the world's population to higher taxation . . .


    30) Chemtrails - Chemtrail conspiracy theorists believe that some contrails, which consist of ice crystals or water vapor condensed behind aircraft, actually result from chemicals or biological agents being deliberately sprayed at high altitude for some undisclosed purpose.


    The greatest Conspiracies . . . History's greatest conspiracy theories
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pict...n-history.html
    Last edited by George B; September 9th, 2012 at 10:33 AM.
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    Administrator Mick's Avatar
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    Surely there's no dispute over Operation Northwoods and MK-ULTRA?

    So you lose the bet

    What's your point here George? Why the laundry list?

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    Moderator George B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Surely there's no dispute over Operation Northwoods and MK-ULTRA?

    So you lose the bet

    What's your point here George? Why the laundry list?
    1) The list is just from a third party source . . . one I would not be accused of creating . . .

    2) Just trying to see how many conspiracies or items of controversy the debunkers would embrace . . .

    3) I think it is easy to criticize and debunk conspiracies in general but a different issue to admit and defend your own beliefs . . .

    4) Think this could stimulate some interesting debate . . .
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    Moderator George B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Surely there's no dispute over Operation Northwoods and MK-ULTRA?

    So you lose the bet

    What's your point here George? Why the laundry list?
    I would suspect you don't consider Northwoods and MK as conspiracies either . . . LoL!!

    And I better understand your fascination with Robotic Cats . . . MK-cats . . .
    Last edited by George B; September 9th, 2012 at 11:14 AM.
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    I think you need to give which definition of "conspiracy" you mean here, or use a better word. Because I "conspire" with my wife about what to have for dinner.

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    Moderator George B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    I think you need to give which definition of "conspiracy" you mean here, or use a better word. Because I "conspire" with my wife about what to have for dinner.
    That is a problem . . . Hmmmm. . . what definition to use . . . ???

    I would think the definition implied by the list above is some controversial event or situation which has attained public notice and debate where multiple persons are thought to be involved or have been involved to maintain a covert purpose . . . and the secrecy is to escape criminal charges, ridicule, embarrassment or being prevented from continuing to act or to continue your actions without interference. . .
    Last edited by George B; September 9th, 2012 at 11:35 AM.
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    George never accepts his bitch slaps with any degree of humility...

    Are you married George?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    George never accepts his bitch slaps with any degree of humility...

    Are you married George?
    Are you?
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    Quote Originally Posted by George B View Post
    Are you?

    Of course. To a real stunner as it happens!

    You should try and spend more time with attractive women George as I suspect you have a side of you which is empty and lacking?

    Unless you are an ugly currant and that would explain a lot...?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Of course. To a real stunner as it happens!

    You should try and spend more time with attractive women George as I suspect you have a side of you which is empty and lacking?

    Unless you are an ugly currant and that would explain a lot...?
    Just wondered why you were an expert on Bitch Slapping. . . LoL!!
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    Quote Originally Posted by George B View Post
    Just wondered why you were an expert on Bitch Slapping. . . LoL!!
    Because I continually see you having your arse handed to you on this forum, yet you are the only one who refuses to see it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    Because I continually see you having your arse handed to you on this forum, yet you are the only one who refuses to see it?
    It is a matter of perspective . . . I get a kick out of seeing all the fuss, fury and energy exerted by empiricists on on a mission to save the world from (fill in the blank) . . .
    Last edited by George B; September 9th, 2012 at 01:59 PM.
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    So you're trolling?

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    Quote Originally Posted by George B View Post
    It is a matter of perspective . . . I get a kick out of seeing all the fuss, fury and energy exerted by emphersists on a mission to save the world form (fill in the blank) . . .

    I know you do.

    Now you admit your sole purpose of obfuscation I hope you are as ignored as you deserve to be from now on?

    It`s fairly easy to get people to admit their true purpose if you push the right buttons...

    Nighty night -

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    Moderator George B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Hippie View Post
    So you're trolling?
    No, I am very serious about what I do . . . you see I disagree with some of the positions held by the participants here and think the alternative view needs representation . . . and if you are serious here about teasing out the truth I would think you would welcome my contribution . . .
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spongebob View Post
    I know you do.

    Now you admit your sole purpose of obfuscation I hope you are as ignored as you deserve to be from now on?

    It`s fairly easy to get people to admit their true purpose if you push the right buttons...

    Nighty night -
    Knock yourself out . . . I am very serious about what I do . . . you see I disagree with some of the positions held by the participants here and think the alternative view needs representation . . . and if you are serious here about teasing out the truth I would think you would welcome my contribution . . .
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    When Mick asked you about the laundry list, you said it was an attempt to stimulate some interesting debate. But in reality you just enjoy stirring the pot and get a kick out of watching the empiricists fuss about. You said so yourself.

    George you're a troll, you just admitted it.

    Quote Originally Posted by George B View Post
    and if you are serious here about teasing out the truth I would think you would welcome my contribution . . .
    Your contribution does not advance knowledge or understanding. Your contribution can be summed up as: "Well, you empiricists can't prove it's not happening, so it could be real".

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    Moderator George B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trigger Hippie View Post
    When Mick asked you about the laundry list, you said it was an attempt to stimulate some interesting debate. But in reality you just enjoy stirring the pot and get a kick out of watching the empiricists fuss about. You said so yourself.

    George you're a troll, you just admitted it.



    Your contribution does not advance knowledge or understanding. Your contribution can be summed up as: "Well, you empiricists can't prove it's not happening, so it could be real".
    I said what I said because of this very reaction . . . SpongeBob was insulting me and I reacted . . . what are you people afraid of anyway?? You are acting more like a cult than intellectuals on a mission . . . you all need to take a chill pill and look at yourself in a mirror . . . you are no better than those chemtrail sites . . .
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    This thread is going nowhere, and not very politely. Heading for deletion unless someone has a good reason why not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    This thread is going nowhere, and not very politely. Heading for deletion unless someone has a good reason why not.
    Thank SpongeBob . . .
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    This thread is going nowhere, and not very politely. Heading for deletion unless someone has a good reason why not.
    My purpose was to try to understand what the Forum was finding acceptable as a conspiracy and maybe what they considered a conspiracy to be . . . at least you answered . . . I am a lightning rod I am hated and now you are going to censor me as well . . . why don't you just ban me and be through with it . . .
    Last edited by George B; September 9th, 2012 at 04:38 PM.
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    Perhaps a thread reboot is in order. Why not give it another go, and be more specific about exactly what it is you are asking, why you are asking, and what you own answer is.

    I think the interesting question is what is the closest think to classic "conspiracy theory" a skeptic believes. We all have something along those lines, and knowing what the boundaries are would be quite illuminating.

    My own "conspiracy" beliefs would be fairly innocuous things like the revolving door in congress, the prison industry's lobby's effect on legislation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Perhaps a thread reboot is in order. Why not give it another go, and be more specific about exactly what it is you are asking, why you are asking, and what you own answer is.

    I think the interesting question is what is the closest think to classic "conspiracy theory" a skeptic believes. We all have something along those lines, and knowing what the boundaries are would be quite illuminating.

    My own "conspiracy" beliefs would be fairly innocuous things like the revolving door in congress, the prison industry's lobby's effect on legislation.
    I suggest then you start it . . . I would only attract attacks . . . and questions of my agenda . . .
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    I know that this thread is probably almost dead but I thought the question in it's original format was actually good, before it devolved into a bunch of name calling. When I first saw this question there were two conspiracies that came immediately to my mind. I am not sure they qualify as conspiracy theories because the were proven to be actual conspiracies where people where actually prosecuted and went to jail. I do think that if you had told people at the start of the investigation what would ultimately be disclosed you would have probably been labeled as a conspiracy theorist.

    1. Watergate
    2. Iran/Contra

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    Don't forget Tonya Harding versus Nancy Kerrigan.

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    Hey i think this thread is rather valid.

    I think maybe the info about the unibomber being perhaps created by an mk ultra program, or atleast antagonized by it falls under this umbrella.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs...0/06/chase.htm

    As always, awesome Radiolab segment on the subject: http://www.radiolab.org/2010/jun/28/



    i believed the 911 dealio from 13-16yo, thought i was in the matrix from 13-15, and went to 1 occupy rally, once... They were just too stupid. I dont think i ever really believed the 911 hoax, i think i just wanted to for along time to validate my own isolation and desires. As with most of the fringe stuff i supported before i became scorned.

    i was a really bad contrarian until i was about 18ish. i started to notice at 16 but took years to correct. id realize i was arguing stuff i didnt really believe or had just argued the opposite before only to argue something.
    Y U NO Lrn2Science?!?

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    Formerly treasurecoastskywatch Joe's Avatar
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    Man Made global warming is a hoax . For carbon taxes and world wide redistribution of wealth . To fund the One World Government . Kennedy ? Not sure we know it all . Geoengineering happening now isnt on the list ? Forgot flight 007 KAL . They had to kill Larry Patton McDonald so they can get in the One World Government . People who lost Faith and trust in the Government believe in conspiracies while those that worship at the altar of government dont .

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    Formerly treasurecoastskywatch Joe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    Perhaps a thread reboot is in order. Why not give it another go, and be more specific about exactly what it is you are asking, why you are asking, and what you own answer is.

    I think the interesting question is what is the closest think to classic "conspiracy theory" a skeptic believes. We all have something along those lines, and knowing what the boundaries are would be quite illuminating.

    My own "conspiracy" beliefs would be fairly innocuous things like the revolving door in congress, the prison industry's lobby's effect on legislation.
    Those arent conspiracies Mick .

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    Senior Member Pete Tar's Avatar
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    That's it?
    You don't believe in a theory (ie, something for which there is no proof or it would no longer be a theory) therefore you 'worship at the altar of government'?
    Ugh.
    Belief is faith, filling in the gaps.
    I *believe* in nothing, I like learning to be informed on what *is*.
    "Details beget facts, and facts, judiciously sent forth, become assassins."

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    Senior Member Pete Tar's Avatar
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    I've got to admit to lately starting to suspect that there may be an active conspiracy to destabilise America or 'the West' in general by encouraging paranoia and mistrust in the citizens of its own government, to the point where a complete breakdown in basic trust results in anarchy and violent authoritarian enforcement.
    The reasons to do this may be just to see democracy fail out of spite or ideology, or to encourage a revolution that can be guided by foreign interests.

    It's a variation on what I think was a cold-war era Russian idea, to demoralise or capture the hearts and minds of the youth of America, and destroy it from within. Or maybe that was just America's own cold-war paranoia about hippies.

    Whatever the origin, with the unprecedented state of communication technology it is now so easy to accomplish this spreading of paranoia and mistrust about any major event by hyping up any inconsistency in reports, infiltrating discussion forums, and creating other fake accounts of believers to be 'convinced' of the lies, which quickly turn into real believers that repeat the lies - and then it pretty much takes care of itself.

    As a form of terrorism, it's easy and doesn't require much effort. No actual secret sabotage missions have to be performed, explosives planted, or people killed. When anything bad happens, you pounce. Whoever is responsible, it was never them, it was the people's own government. Even when the person WAS responsible, the government was responsible for them being responsible. They were tricked into doing it.
    Naturally, the people are outraged.

    This builds to the point that major divisions in the citizenry (the 'sheeple' versus the 'awake ones'), and a seething hatred and resentment of government, results in the extreme .1 percent getting worked up enough by the perceived deception to carry out some violent atrocity. At which the same 'analysis' of discrepancies (of which there can be a literally infinite supply) and tactics of doubt and suspicion are laid. This amps up the pressure once again, then more self-inflicted attacks, more opportunities to sow more mistrust, and so on.

    This is a very effective way of undermining the basic cohesion of a society.

    I only suspect this because of the literally unbelievable stupidity being exhibited in the internet at the moment. Some people will deliberately get a quite easily and well known detail wrong, and when corrected will simply ignore the correction and repeat the mistaken claim somewhere else as it furthers the 'suspicious' narrative. These are the people I think may be agents, because I'm not sure that people can be that stupid. They must be doing it on purpose. The dialogue eventually gets taken up by legitimate forum users, and it spreads into the comments sections of every major media news source. Then the lie becomes part of the collective zeitgeist, and will be called on again when the next big thing happens.

    Other motivations may be purely monetary (creating an audience for an 'alternative' market), or just general socio-pathic trolling, which *might* fit into an anarchist-type rationale.

    Of course, this could all just be the random results of an emergent system (being this point in time and technology).
    "Details beget facts, and facts, judiciously sent forth, become assassins."

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    Senior Member Jazzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Tar View Post
    Of course, this could all just be the random results of an emergent system (being this point in time and technology).
    Great last line. LOL. Thanks.

    “The psychological features of each such crisis are unique to the culture and the time, but one common denominator that exists at the beginning of all such “bad times” is an exacerbation of society’s hysterical condition. The emotionalism dominating in individual, collective, and political life, combined with the subconscious selection and substitution of data in reasoning, lead to individual and national egotism. The mania for taking offense at the drop of a hat provokes constant retaliation, taking advantage of hyperirritability and hypocriticality on the part of others. It is this feature, this hystericization of society, that enables pathological plotters, snake charmers, and other primitive deviants to act as essential factors in the processes of the origination of evil on a macro-social scale.” - Andrew Lobacewski.

    But not very new, as the above was written before the Russian revolution.
    Last edited by Jazzy; April 22nd, 2013 at 07:04 AM.

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    Member Drew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Tar View Post
    Of course, this could all just be the random results of an emergent system (being this point in time and technology).
    It's alarming to watch, but I've always kind of taken comfort in that there have almost always been some degree of extreme conspiracy rhetoric in American politics and culture, and we've more or less muddled through in spite of it.

    It's a longish read, but I'd draw your attention to Richard Hofstadter's 1964 essay, "The Paranoid Style in American Politics". It's a classic in poli-sci, tracing the regular emergence of different forms of paranoid conspiracy in American political rhetoric. His focus then was largely 50s-60s anticommunist conspiracy theory, but Hofstadter is careful to note that conspiracist paranoia shows up on both the left and right. A lot, and throughout U.S. history.

    It's a favorite read of mine, and worthwhile overall, but his conclusion is apt:

    Quote Content from external source


    This glimpse across a long span of time emboldens me to make the conjecture—it is no more than that—that a mentality disposed to see the world in this way may be a persistent psychic phenomenon, more or less constantly affecting a modest minority of the population. But certain religious traditions, certain social structures and national inheritances, certain historical catastrophes or frustrations may be conducive to the release of such psychic energies, and to situations in which they can more readily be built into mass movements or political parties. In American experience ethnic and religious conflict have plainly been a major focus for militant and suspicious minds of this sort, but class conflicts also can mobilize such energies. Perhaps the central situation conducive to the diffusion of the paranoid tendency is a confrontation of opposed interests which are (or are felt to be) totally irreconcilable, and thus by nature not susceptible to the normal political processes of bargain and compromise. The situation becomes worse when the representatives of a particular social interest—perhaps because of the very unrealistic and unrealizable nature of its demands—are shut out of the political process. Having no access to political bargaining or the making of decisions, they find their original conception that the world of power is sinister and malicious fully confirmed. They see only the consequences of power—and this through distorting lenses—and have no chance to observe its actual machinery. A distinguished historian has said that one of the most valuable things about history is that it teaches us how things do not happen. It is precisely this kind of awareness that the paranoid fails to develop. He has a special resistance of his own, of course, to developing such awareness, but circumstances often deprive him of exposure to events that might enlighten him—and in any case he resists enlightenment.

    We are all sufferers from history, but the paranoid is a double sufferer, since he is afflicted not only by the real world, with the rest of us, but by his fantasies as well.


    Essentially, throughout American democracy, there have always been groups of people who, confronted by perceived threats and political anxieties, view opposing interests not simply as people who disagree with them, but rather as a conspiracy in collusion with a foreign power actively working to destroy the Republic.



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    New Member Sue's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mick View Post
    This thread is going nowhere, and not very politely. Heading for deletion unless someone has a good reason why not.
    I can't think of one.

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    Member justanairlinepilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George B View Post
    I suggest then you start it . . . I would only attract attacks . . . and questions of my agenda . . .
    George, I'd sit down with you and have several beers, and talk about what's on your mind.

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    Moderator George B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by justanairlinepilot View Post
    George, I'd sit down with you and have several beers, and talk about what's on your mind.
    I would love too . . . me thinks the entertainment industry including the Internet, books and media have a play in this dance . . . name me one successful movie, etc that doesn't have an element of conspiracy within its plot . . .
    The only thing guaranteed in life is deception. . . everything else is optional . . . George B

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    Senior Member Jazzy's Avatar
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    [...]

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    Technically, if we are talking about Conspiracy instead of a conspiracy theory, there are several I believe because they have been well established by evidence. Watergate was a conspiracy. Iran-Contra was a conspiracy. Operation Paperclip was a conspiracy. They are also well established by the evidence.

    And yes, MKUltra was well established by the Church Committee as a legitimate thing, but has had far more attributed to it than can honestly be attributed.

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