NEXRAD Hoax goes commercial:

[HappyMonday]

Most truthers won't accept statements by public entities which are provably correct,because they believe the world is corrupt.

Your work is publicly available and very authoritatively delivered,yet you post it here asking for and accepting corrections.Given the nature of the fear you share with many other truthers,perhaps it would be better if you had these kind of conferences BEFORE posting videos full of frightening conjectures,regardless of your use of caveats.

[Jay Reynolds]

now have a can of stfu... did you google your response before calling me ignorant?
[/B]

I won't shut up. I did not have to google anything to know that dust is a cloud condensation nuclei, or to understand what creates hurricanes.

You said:

[B]Sand blown up from the Sahara IS THE MAIN CREATOR of our east coast hurricanes[/B], and when companies like Aquiess are moving atmospheric rivers, and you debunkers are so hard-on for thinking you know wtf is going on... it kinda makes me wonder... what is your motivation?

Considering what we can see + what we know is possible + the intent of the DHS to modify hurricanes + intended target of the hurricane + amount of dollars to be saved if they act

That is an ignorant thing to say, and the paper you cited directly contradicts what you said. You aren't ready for prime-time. Everything we look at tells us that you don't have a clue about atmospheric science, and have set out to make statements about that science without even learning the basics.
By doing so, you are:
1. misinforming people
2. adding to a general and already pervasive amount of insupportable bunk in regards to cimate, weather, haarp and radar
3. making yourself look foolish in the process
4. making others look foolish when they ignorantly and irresponsiby repeat your bogus information
5. helping scam artists who will incorporate your bunk into their bunk and create an ever-larger amout of bunk,then fleece people asking for donations, selling videos, etc.

The bottom line:
1. You don't learn anything
2. others are misinformed
3. you look the fool
4. you cause others to look foolish

Guess who benefits?

Scam artists like dutchsinse, fake "Dr." Nick Begich, Alex Jones and others who stand to profit off the fear based bunk.

Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, please tell me who benefits from your website? Does someone pay you to do this?
I am at a loss to even see any way that anyone benefits except the scam artists.

That's the bottom line, and unless you can show otherwise, you should just take your site down and go take a basic class in meteorology.
Who knows, you might even learn something?

[Jay Reynolds]

The bottom line:
1. You don't learn anything
2. others are misinformed
3. you look the fool
4. you cause others to look foolish

Guess who benefits?

Scam artists like dutchsinse, fake "Dr." Nick Begich, Alex Jones and others who stand to profit off the fear based bunk.

Maybe I'm wrong, and if so, please tell me who benefits from your website? Does someone pay you to do this?
I am at a loss to even see any way that anyone benefits except the scam artists.

That's the bottom line, and unless you can show otherwise, you should just take your site down and go take a basic class in meteorology.
Who knows, you might even learn something?

Ok, I missed that you are expecting and fleecing folks out of money, $662 so far.
https://fundrazr.com/campaigns/9M6K7
Some poor fools are out $100 to learn what you "believe".

Let me ask you something, Jim Lee.
You say you spent two years making your website.
Furthermore, you say you are a "Truther".
You didn't say you were a "Believer", a "Speculator", or a "Conspiracy Theorist".
Why do you expect other people to pay you?
To learn what you believe, to be entertained, or to look at the bunk you put out?

How do they benefit by misinformation, by losing hard-earned money, or by just looking at your beliefs?

Did Rick from Kansas get his $100 worth?

Just asking......

[Mick]

Everyone please calm down. This is not YouTube.

Telling someone they are stupid or deceitful, is impolite. Regardless of if it is "true" or not.

If someone is wrong, then show them where they are wrong.

If someone is being deceitful, then show everyone where there is deceit.

You don't need to (either instead of, or in addition) say "you lie!" or "do your homework". The evidence-based refutation should speak for itself. Additional impoliteness serves only to distract away from debunking.

And remember this site is about debunking. It's about removing bunk. It's not about debating the viability of particular theories. It's about removing the underpinnings of those theories by demonstrating, one piece at a time, that the proposed underly evidence is bunk. This needs to be done in a conclusive manner. It's best if it's done in a systematic, repeatable, and authoritative manner.

A "Gish Gallop" is a long list of "evidence", the weight of which is supposed to demonstrate that a particular theory is likely correct (or even to "prove" the theory). Rezn8d has long lists of evidence that look like Gish Gallops. I want to dissuade people from posting Gish Gallops, but there's also two ways I suggest we debunkers approach a gallop, and debunking in general.

Firstly - Do not respond in kind. Point by point rebuttals don't work because the rebuttals get lost in long threads, never to be seen again, and because the Gish Gallop relies upon the perceived weight of evidence. And rebuttal in aggregate can simply be nullified by slight shifts in focus, and/or by saying it does not really matter because look at the huge amount of other evidence.

Secondly - Divide and conquer, with focus. Vast amounts of debunker time is wasted by writing well-reasoned and well-researched rebuttals to a point because they are lost in the middle of a long thread where nobody will ever look again. Even if Google brings an interested reader to the correct sub-page of the thread, they are unlikely to read it if it's not the first post in the thread. So if you want the rebuttal to have any value at all, then start a new thread for each point, and give a google-friendly title, preferably with "Debunked" at the start (if you have actually debunked it). Add a very brief summary at the start. Add and quote authoritative references. Use diagrams. But do it all in one place, so you don't have to do it again. Add a link in the original thread with something like "That issue is addressed here [...], briefly: [.......], please address it in that thread"

This does a number of things. It forces people (if they respond) to address actual points of science, and not slip past them into other areas of the vague theories. One can never conclusively demonstrate the falsity of "the PTB are controlling the weather" or "some might be spraying us if they have figured out how to do it undetectably", or "the illuminati controls everything". But one can certainly demonstrate the falsity of things like "contrails normally dissipate in 15 seconds", or "less sunlight is reaching the ground than 30 year ago", or "Obamacare mandates RFID implants in everyone". This also make the debunking instantly and forever re-useable, both as a reference, and to the casual googler.

Take the Obamacare RFID debunk for example. Had I simply responded with that same material in the middle of some digressing thread about the NWO, then it would have been lost in time, a drop in the ocean, seen by maybe five people. But because I made it into its own thread, it has been read by over 150,000 individual people. And had it started the rebuttal with "no, you obviously don't understand, and are stupid or lying, go do your homework, take a class in government", or suchlike, then a goodly portion of those 150,000 people would have stopped reading, or had their mental defenses activated, and the debunking would not take.

No once you've collected enough of these individual debunks, you can address the weight of the evidence. But here again you might want to start a new thread, one in which you list the evidence, and link to the individual rebuttals. Jay often does individual posts like this for things like Shasta chemical tests. And if you find yourself writing the same thing over and over again, perhaps that's a sign that you need to write it once, and just link to it (with maybe a small cut and paste of the condensed version).

So:

• Be polite. Even if they are not.
• Don't tell people they are stupid, or need to do research. Even if they are, or do. It's not polite.
• Don't join in a Gish Gallop.
• Divide and conquer, nail them down.
• Make your debunks useful by making them repeatable, and findable.

[Jay Reynolds]

I see that Jim Lee's misinformation along with his appeal for cash has become incorporated with the nexus of dutchsinse, inc. at geoengineeringwatch:
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/g...stem-part-1-2/

Jim, you can be proud to be associated with yet another disinformation website!

[rezn8d]

Ok, I missed that you are expecting and fleecing folks out of money, $662 so far.
https://fundrazr.com/campaigns/9M6K7
Some poor fools are out $100 to learn what you "believe".

Let me ask you something, Jim Lee.
You say you spent two years making your website.
Furthermore, you say you are a "Truther".
You didn't say you were a "Believer", a "Speculator", or a "Conspiracy Theorist".
Why do you expect other people to pay you?
To learn what you believe, to be entertained, or to look at the bunk you put out?

How do they benefit by misinformation, by losing hard-earned money, or by just looking at your beliefs?

Did Rick from Kansas get his $100 worth?

Just asking......

As clearly stated (where-ever I post the donate link, also on climateviewer.com, NOT on my rezn8d.net or .com), [...], the donations are to fund a server with an SSH connection that I can use to host my new project, the GSS.


Regardless, it always seems to come back to cash with you [people].
My websites have no advertising, my youtube videos have no advertising, and I've been doing this two years for free. My wife insisted I make a donate button due to me paying 800 dollars out of pocket (and I am poor) for the servers and software I have so far. You are so quick to judge you assume too much, to boot you are abrasive and immoral in your judgements.

I should just take my websites down? Do you expect comments like these will motivate me to do such a thing or are they simply inflammatory statements intended to demean me?

I do seek the truth, I am no truther. My climateviewer.com website is intended to be a source of reliable information, that has been fact checked. I came here initially in hopes that we could work together in a positive way, you correcting my database, and me being the judge of the two sides: 1. conspiracy theorists 2. debunkers

My grandfather says "believe none of what you hear and half of what you see"
he also says "There are two sides to every story. The truth is somewhere in the middle."

and thank you Mick for reminding the herd that it's supposed to be about the facts, not personal attacks.

[Mick]

and thank you Mick for reminding the herd that it's supposed to be about the facts, not personal attacks.

You're welcome, but it goes both ways. I've edited a few nasty insults out of your post. Please be polite. I don't want to ban people.

[rezn8d]

I see that Jim Lee's misinformation along with his appeal for cash has become incorporated with the nexus of dutchsinse, inc. at geoengineeringwatch:
http://www.geoengineeringwatch.org/g...stem-part-1-2/

Jim, you can be proud to be associated with yet another disinformation website!

This document by Jim Lee does not necessarily endorse or support any of the views expressed within the documents, articles, reports, testimonies, or websites where it is reblogged, reposted, remixed, with the exception of those specifically so attributed.

That work for ya?
If not does this mean I have to support every website that has my video posted somewhere? That will take a while....

[rezn8d]

You're welcome, but it goes both ways. I've edited a few nasty insults out of your post. Please be polite. I don't want to ban people.

eye for an eye, I was insulted before I came here, insulted while, and finally fired back. I assure you my intent is not to fling poo, only to stop the public harassment of my person from a website that is specifically designed to do just that.

[Mick]

eye for an eye, I was insulted before I came here, insulted while, and finally fired back. I assure you my intent is not to fling poo, only to stop the public harassment of my person from a website that is specifically designed to do just that.

I think perhaps you went about it slightly the wrong way though. Eye for an an eye is not helpful.

[SR1419]

to stop the public harassment of my person from a website that is specifically designed to do just that.

That is not accurate description of this website.

[rezn8d]

That is not accurate description of this website.

take back your statement or ill start compiling all the personal assaults on this forum and make a blog about it. you know what you do, own it.

[rezn8d]

521 posts contain the word RETARD
Shall I keep tabulating slurs or just stop there
https://www.google.com/search?q=reta...e:metabunk.org

As long as your side (debunkers) and my side (paranoid people) continue to attack each other, neither side will see the truth.

[Mick]

521 posts contain the word RETARD
Shall I keep tabulating slurs or just stop there
https://www.google.com/search?q=reta...e:metabunk.org

As long as your side (debunkers) and my side (paranoid people) continue to attack each other, neither side will see the truth.

Actually there were only three, two of which were the correct use (retard, as in slow down), and one (whcih simply got index from all the activity streams) was from an unregistered guest

It makes sense to me. It must be pretty easy to talk some lone retard into doing something like that. Seems very strange that the only cases are instigated and facilitated by FBI/CIA. It must surely be regarded as strange that 'real' attacks are not prolific. They do it all the time in the middle east etc, (real ones). There are millions of illegal immigrants in U.S and Europe. Thankfully you are far more likely to be killed by some thug or crazy than any Jihadist. The question really hangs there like some huge elephant; 'why are there no terrorist attacks.

Perhaps you are a little hasty with your claims?

[SR1419]

take back your statement or ill start compiling all the personal assaults on this forum and make a blog about it. you know what you do, own it.

that some people insult others does not mean that the website is "specifically designed" to do that...

You know that is true.

[rezn8d]

Actually there were only three, two of which were the correct use (retard, as in slow down), and one (whcih simply got index from all the activity streams) was from an unregistered guest
Perhaps you are a little hasty with your claims?

rofl, yet another example of acting first and thinking last, you are correct Mick /facepalm

[Mick]

Really the intent of this website is to avoid personal attacks, and focus on the bunk as effectively as possible. Personal attacks are generally not helpful. That's why I have a politeness policy in place as my only written rule so far.

[rezn8d]

that some people insult others does not mean that the website is "specifically designed" to do that...

You know that is true.

that the same members of this forum proliferate hate via YouTube comments and all other social media should be evident. I have never met a nice debunker, cept Mick who imo is interested in "just the facts" and refrains from attacks, at least in my experience.

[Mick]

that the same members of this forum proliferate hate via YouTube comments and all other social media should be evident. I have never met a nice debunker, cept Mick who imo is interested in "just the facts" and refrains from attacks, at least in my experience.

There are plenty of polite debunkers here (and even on YouTube). Perhaps they just don't stick in your memory as much as the more abrasive ones.

[SR1419]

that the same members of this forum proliferate hate via YouTube comments and all other social media should be evident. I have never met a nice debunker, cept Mick who imo is interested in "just the facts" and refrains from attacks, at least in my experience.

I can honestly say that I do not "proliferate hate" - here or anywhere...It is hard at times to not let emotions get the best of oneself and resort to insults...Mick is seemingly freakishly devoid of any anger even in the face of a tremendous amount of abuse from people...its something most of us try to aspire to as he is correct that it inhibits productive discussion.

But this website is NOT designed to specifically spread personal attacks. As he said the politeness policy is first and foremost on the website- even if enforcement is problematic and subjective.

I don't believe I have insulted or attacked your person- if so, I apologize,

[Jazzy]

explain why that looks EXACTLY like this:
Attachment 1047

Well, one reason might be that someone used the very same image. Not similar. The same.

I wonder who that someone was?

[Jay Reynolds]

Perhaps you are a little hasty with your claims?

I'm starting to detect a pattern here. Jim, this pretty much sums up your problem.

Yes, it must be frustrating to find that two years of hard work was a complete waste of time. You need to understand that what we are telling you is very important. You have been essentially driving down the wrong side of the road oblivious to your predicament. Further down that road is a precipice, a point of no return. A place where, if you continue, you will find yourself like a big rig unable to turn around.

The cliff I'm talking about is one where you have dug yourself in so deep that you won't even be able to consider that you have been wrong on each and every claim you have been making, and you will become blind to all reason. You will have peers or followers who will be depending on you for their next fix of fear based doom porn. You will lose all of your rational friends, and perhaps even family members. You will replace those with others who support you in a collective delusion, each quoting and stroking the other in an orgy of accusations against this or that. Your collective actions will have almost every aspect known to exist within doomsday cults, and you will fnd yourself further and further estarnged from fact or reason.

You have a choice. Think carefully about where you are headed. Find something useful to do. Stop beng a "poor man". Get a real job and immerse yourself in something productive. I've seen people in exactly your position. Not a one of them who went down that road succeeded, within about five years they became failures like Carnicom, William Thomas, and soon to come, Michael J. Murphy.

[HappyMonday]

that the same members of this forum proliferate hate via YouTube comments and all other social media should be evident. I have never met a nice debunker, cept Mick who imo is interested in "just the facts" and refrains from attacks, at least in my experience.

Having spent three weeks facing constant abuse, accusations and unfair reporting from chemtrail adherents on Twitter in response to simply stating the facts about the more obvious flaws in the theory, I beg to differ. The debunker's with whom I've come into contact during this time have been very pleasant.

[Belfrey]

Having spent three weeks facing constant abuse, accusations and unfair reporting from chemtrail adherents on Twitter in response to simply stating the facts about the more obvious flaws in the theory, I beg to differ. The debunker's with whom I've come into contact during this time have been very pleasant.

I've seen some pretty rude debunkers on YouTube comments. But not the ones that i can identify as being members here. I really love Mick's politeness policy, because it's something I've always tried to hold myself to.

[Mick]

I really love Mick's politeness policy, because it's something I've always tried to hold myself to.

Thank you. I'm a big fan of the "don't be a dick" school of skepticism:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/ba...t-1-the-video/

[Jay Reynolds]

I've seen people in exactly your position. Not a one of them who went down that road succeeded, within about five years they became failures like Carnicom, William Thomas, and soon to come, Michael J. Murphy.

Correction. One could say that men such as Alex Jones in the US, David Icke in the UK, or Stan Deyo in Australia are successful.
Others might say that they are just good salesmen, or even sell-outs. How good of a salesman do you really think you'll be, Jim, and
would Alex Jones put up with it?

[solrey]

You're right, Mick. Apologies for violating the politeness policy. I shouldn't stoop to his level on this forum just because Jim Lee called me an asshat, among other things, on youtube.

[solrey]

Dutchsinse has been spewing his bunk in "interviews" for a company called Deep Earth Bunkers on an internet streaming "radio show" (commercial) the company produces. Wonder if he's getting paid for being on these bunk laden fear mongering doomfomercials?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s03tTD3ldUo

[plane852]

Dutchsinse has been spewing his bunk in "interviews" for a company called Deep Earth Bunkers on an internet streaming "radio show" (commercial) the company produces. Wonder if he's getting paid for being on these bunk laden fear mongering doomfomercials?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s03tTD3ldUo

Things are getting really tense betweenn Dutchsinse and Kevin Martin as of this evening, with a lot of claims being thrown around. Kevin called out Dutch as a scam artist, while promoting his website, and now things are getting heated. Kevin is due on Deep Earth Bunker on Tuesday night to talk about his interpretation of HAARP.

[Jay Reynolds]

This is an interesting way to come down hard on non-sinse. There are a few more out there against him, youtubers are really hard on each other.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCquQ_q91Ls

[plane852]

Things are getting really tense betweenn Dutchsinse and Kevin Martin as of this evening, with a lot of claims being thrown around. Kevin called out Dutch as a scam artist, while promoting his website, and now things are getting heated. Kevin is due on Deep Earth Bunker on Tuesday night to talk about his interpretation of HAARP.

The radio interview has been cancelled, but the war continues from both - each side spewing out nonsensical garbage. This could be helping both individuals on the financial front, as I can see people are starting to donate in earnest to whoever they trust more.

[scombrid]

There was a link to this page on Dutchsinse's facebook page.

http://rezn8d.com/wxmod/cloud-ionization.html

So the dubious ion-rain making companies like Aquiess are still being promoted as evidence of the global geo-engineering conspiracy.

[scombrid]

Regarding the spat that Kevin is trying to start with Dutch. He's done it before and it only make Dutch's followers rally around him with more fervor.

Funny thing out of it. Dutch acknowledges taking over $1000 in donations from a single lady. Kevin claims she came to him to tell him that she had been scammed to pay for dutch's movie that never was. Dutch says she gave willingly. Either way, dutch is taking money for his "services" and in some cases, fairly large sums from individual people.

[ssfor27]

"Is it possible that it magically went offline two hurricanes in a row? Is it possible both hit downtown new york, one during the Occupy Wall Street height, and one during an election? Is it possible while supposedly offline twice it magically ran clear air when turned on? I have my own damn article explaining radar anomalies, so don't play me for a fool"

I just had to respond to this, since I work for the NWS as an electronics tech and part of that job includes maintenance of the WSR-88D weather radar. To answer your question - YES - it's possible the radar "magically" ran in clear air mode when it was "turned back on"

Weather radars are rarely, if ever, shut completely down. When they need maintenance, at least part of the system is typically still running, often times just in a state of standby.

However, whenever technicians are doing maintenance, they have control of the radar locally. The meteorologists back in the office have no control over anything when the techs are on site. If that particular radar was down for whatever reason before those storms moved in, it would have resumed operation in whatever Volume Coverage Pattern (VCP) it was in prior to being shut down. So, let's say the radar was operating in a clear air mode 2 days before the storms arrived, then it broke and was down as the storms were approaching. When the techs got the thing going again, they may have let it run for quite some time in whatever mode it was in at the time to ensure everything was working properly before giving control of it back to the forecasters.

We often times get calls from the office asking us to switch VCPs for the forecasters when we have control of the radar and are performing maintenance that may not require putting it in standby. Just the way it works sometimes.

BTW - I did look at that site's history over the period of time in question for this last storm and it WAS experiencing some type of maintenance issue that generated an alarm. So it certainly appears it broke and required some kind of maintenance as that hurricane was arriving.

Getting very tired of seeing the agency I work for, the friends and co-workers I have throughout the NWS, and myself being accused of underhandedness and, in some cases, murder, when in reality, those radars are in place to PROTECT property and lives.

[lotek]

eye for an eye

Civil human society has long since surpassed Hammurabi...

As the science is clear here and there appears nothing but bickering left to do:

Im not sayin.. Im just sayin..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusory_superiority

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-serving_bias

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_consensus_effect

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heurist...ecision_making

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

http://therapists.psychologytoday.co...rof_search.php ....

[scombrid]

With all the links you guys can pull out of your ass, have you not found ONE SINGLE THING THAT WOULD PROMPT YOU TO GIVE A FUCK ABOUT THE CORRUPTION, LIES, AND DECEPTIONS SURROUNDING THE POLLUTION OF OUR ENVIRONMENT BY CORPORATIONS, GOVERNMENTS, AND DR. EVILS?

Nope, you pocket those, and don't make the world any better by standing up for little guys who are scared and seeking answers to questions that seem to have none.

If your only intent is to dissolve what you find to be untrue.... then focus your efforts on the fucking governments lies and not those of the public are obviously ill-informed, scared, and seeking truth.

I'm a professional in an environmental field. I deal with real pollution problems. It makes my job more difficult when ill-informed members of the public become irate over some ficticious danger they learned about on the internet. I've had people confront me at a boat ramp because they swore that the fish in the river were contaminated with radiation from Japan and they were angry that we weren't doing anything about it. The whole point of debunking is to correct misconceptions like that before they spread so widely as to cause people to show up at county commission meetings to protest "chemtrails" when the things they think are chemtrails are contrail cirrus. There might be real pollution that should be dealt with that would merit serious attention. Harold Saive could be useful in his home county, championing the health of the Floridian Aquifer or some other real cause. Our springs are a mess. The aquifer is over-pumped and badly polluted with nutrients. So some springs are drying up. Others are low. And those that are flowing well are growing way too much algae, hydrilla, etc.... Our governor and legislature have no interest in protecting water quality. They are trying to re-write the standards so they can declare impared waters to be okay. Meanwhile the phytoplankton in the St. Johns River are dominated by cyanobacteria with nearly annual blooms and consequent dissolved oxygen sags. What's Harold and up there in Alachua doing? He makes videos and bothers the county commission about a fictitious issue.

There are ample real problems to be addressed and mis-directing a scared and ill-informed public as with Dutchsinse's claiming that non-precipitation returns, such as those that result from nocturnal clutter from migrating birds, on NEXRAD mosaics are HAARP rings is not helpful. It is ultimately harmful.

[Cairenn]

I have seen so many things blamed on the BP oil spill, that had nothing to do with it.

It is like with convicting someone of a crime, if you convict the WRONG person, the real one will keep victimizing others. If ALL the effort that is being dumping into the nonsense of chem trails and HAARP and similar hoaxes, could be used to help point out REAL problems instead, the environment would be a lot better off.

The 'common wisdom' thinks that a bunch of Kemp's Ridley sea turtles were killed by the oil spill, however, every necropsy of one showed (and that included ones with obvious oil on them) that they had died of drowning, with stomachs full of fast moving prey (not their normal food). Instead of the oil killing them, fishing nets was the culprit. It seems that quite a few of the fisher folk, took advantage of the officials being tied up with the spill to violate the law. When it was realized that that was happening, more checks were started and they found a higher percentage that had disabled their TEDs.

The conspiracy theories weaken us

[scombrid]

Jim "rezn8d" Lee, Michael "Dutchsinse" Janitch, and Tatoott1009 are teamed up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVUHG...hsnE1Q&index=1