When does something become debunked on metabunk?

[MikeC]

Of course it is a values judgement, and I am sure you have a few things you think are ridiculous.

I think it is ridiculous because objective reality is not a democracy. It does not matter how many people earnestly believe that water is something other than H2O - water is and always will be H2O.

It also does not matter how many people earnestly believe in the big bang or young earth creation (ie the earth being 6000 years old, the flood created all the geography, etc) - these things either did or did not happen (and since they are mutually exclusive either one of them did or neither of them did - both of them happening is not an option!)

Whether something is debunked or not is a matter of objective fact - whether/why you choose to believe it is debunked or not is a matter of opinion or faith or belief for sure. The 2 things are separate and different.

[Pete Tar]

So the claim 'black can be white if you believe it' is something that you consider un-debunkable?
Nothing could prove the opposite to you?
(keeping in mind that we are not talking about something like one person's word for 'white' is actually referring to black).

[George B]

Of course it is a values judgement, and I am sure you have a few things you think are ridiculous.

I think it is ridiculous because objective reality is not a democracy. It does not matter how many people earnestly believe that water is something other than H2O - water is and always will be H2O.

It also does not matter how many people earnestly believe in the big bang or young earth creation (ie the earth being 6000 years old, the flood created all the geography, etc) - these things either did or did not happen (and since they are mutually exclusive either one of them did or neither of them did - both of them happening is not an option!)

Whether something is debunked or not is a matter of objective fact - whether/why you choose to believe it is debunked or not is a matter of opinion or faith or belief for sure. The 2 things are separate and different.

I never said objective reality did not exist . . . we simply do not know all the rules . . . consensus is arrived IMO through a process unknown and unconscious to us though we are part of the process . . . so occasionally we can effect what we call reality . . .

[MikeC]

I did not say that you said objective reality does not exist - why do you always change things???

You have said that objective reality can be changed by belief - or at least that is what I understood you to say.

I think that is a ridiculous notion, for the reasons I gave.

And "what we call reality" is not the same thing as objective reality! by defintion!!

[Mick]

This is getting a little too philosophical

It's an interesting thing though, belief in things untestable. Maybe consciousness does create reality (but then why is it measurably the same for everyone) but how could we tell? Can you use "the force"? If not, then is there even the slightest point in talking about it? It makes no difference to anything.

[George B]

So the claim 'black can be white if you believe it' is something that you consider un-debunkable?
Nothing could prove the opposite to you?
(keeping in mind that we are not talking about something like one person's word for 'white' is actually referring to black).

I did not say that physics does not work . . . there is consensus that normally black is black and white is white . . . it is the absolute certainty that I don't buy into . . . the rules appear to present colors in the spectrum we have experienced . . . what can change the rules and/or the experience of the color are the following:

1) Deception
2) Lack of vision (blindness or color blindness)
3) Failure of the recording apparatus
4) Inappropriate lighting
5) Distance or atmospheric interference
6) Unexplained rule change . . . via some unknown conscious process . . .

[Mick]

6) Unexplained rule change . . . via some unknown conscious process . . .

Can you give an example of a rule?

[George B]

I did not say that you said objective reality does not exist - why do you always change things???

You have said that objective reality can be changed by belief - or at least that is what I understood you to say.

I think that is a ridiculous notion, for the reasons I gave.

And "what we call reality" is not the same thing as objective reality! by defintion!!

Yes . . . I feel it is possible and has happened . . . we refer to it as paranormal . . . unexplainable . . . anomalous . . . and other terms such as miracles, etc.

[George B]

Can you give an example of a rule?

Intercessory prayer or ritual changing certain death . . .

[Mick]

Ah, the supernatural. Well, all bets are off then. Anything goes if you just ignore the laws of physics and posit an arbitrary supernatural force with does things without leaving evidence.

[George B]

Ah, the supernatural. Well, all bets are off then. Anything goes if you just ignore the laws of physics and posit an arbitrary supernatural force with does things without leaving evidence.

I think you are forgetting membrane theory, string and super string theory . . . collision of parallel or multiple universes, hyper dimensional interactions . . . seems there is plenty of room in theoretical physics for unexplained phenomena and rules we have no concepts for . . .