Claim: Fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field (geomagnetic storms) causes a myriad of different health problems.

[serpentdebunker]

Claim: geomagnetic storms cause a myriad of negative effects on human health.

All of a sudden, out of nowhere, within the past three years, there have been a myriad of studies all saying that fluctuations in Earth's magnetic are linked to a plethora of different health problems, including but not limited to:

Myocardial infarctions
High blood pressure
Strokes
Coronary Artery Disease
Seizures
Suicides
Depression
Insomnia
Alzheimer's
Schizophrenia
Multiple Sclerosis
Autonomic problems
Nervous system disorders
Collapse of organ function and death
Arrhythmias
Sudden cardiac death
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 2420300080 -

Life Sciences in Space Research​

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.120.021006 - The Journal of the American Heart Association

It claims "solar activity can impact autonomic nervous system activities," and to back this up, cites Mattoni, M., Ahn, S., Fröhlich, C. et al. (2020). However, that paper only had 20 volunteers, and says this in its results: "[T]he only significant results were an increase in very low frequency during higher local geomagnetic activity and a geomagnetic anticipatory decrease in heart rate a day before the higher global geomagnetic activity. Both correlations were very low. The loss of most significant effects after this correction suggests that previous findings may be a result of autocorrelation."

https://biomedscis.com/fulltext/the-eff ... 000203.php

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... -suicides/

https://www.newscientist.com/article/23 ... iven-year/

Schizophrenia and Alzheimer's are mentioned: https://biomedscis.com/fulltext/the-eff ... 000203.php

https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/on-heal ... on-health/

''Our results may be explained through the direct impact of environmental electric and magnetic fields produced during GMD on the human autonomic nervous system. Interactions between GMD and the autonomic nervous system are likely to induce a cascade of reactions in the body's electrophysiology that culminate in the collapse of organ functions and death.''

https://aepi.biomedcentral.com/articles ... 20-00019-9 Earth's magnetic field allegedly causes seizures too.

According to Wikipedia, it is theorized that this is because when Earth's magnetic field fluctuates, it messes up the pineal gland, causing health problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_storm

This list of links is very non-exhaustive.

Some news articles on this subject are now starting to include mentions about how geomagnetic storms are going to cause a myriad of health problems, and how to help mitigate them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/weather/t...r&cvid=a1612a7a07bb44a0e7e28844b28de6f6&ei=10

"Magnetic storms can cause headaches, fatigue, insomnia, irritability, general discomfort, exacerbation of chronic illnesses, and even negatively impact a healthy individual."

No less than 3 years ago, I remember reading about geomagnetic storms and nothing was ever mentioned about these storms causing health effects. Quite the opposite - they'd assure readers that while geomagnetic storms may cause trouble for technology, they don't affect humans.

Though some studies don't suggest a mechanism other than vague mentions of Earth's magnetism, the ones that do mention things like "Schumann Resonances" and how Earth's magnetic field disrupts the "Pineal gland" or "liquid crystals" that are inside every cell, and when Earth's magnetic field fluctuates during a geomagnetic storm, the properties of these crystals are changed, leading to disease. There are occasionally mentions of solar storms altering the frequency of these "Schumann resonances", which then affects human brainwaves and autonomic systems, including the heart.

This is reportedly an emerging field of biology, known as "heliobiology".

What is everyone's thoughts on this topic?

 

[NorCal Dave]

Schizophrenia and Alzheimer's are mentioned: https://biomedscis.com/fulltext/the-eff ... 000203.php

Best practice here is to include what you're talking about in relation to the linked source. My kid is a grad student in pharma-chemistry/med-chem working on Alzheimer's and has previously done work on Schizophrenia, so this caught my eye. From the link:

m) Solar activity may contribute to the development of and be a trigger of the exacerbation of nervous and mental disorders, such schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s disease, and multiple sclerosis [38]

Content from External Source

That's all it says, so we have to track down footnote #38 which is this:

37. Stoupel E (2006) Monthly new-borns number and environmental physical activity. Medicina 42.2: 238-241.
38.Lõhmus M (2018) Possible biological mechanisms linking mental health and heat-a contemplative review. Int J of Envir Research and Public Health 15(7): 1515.

Content from External Source

This leads us to a paywall, but the abstract doesn't mention Alzheimer's or Schizophrenia:

This review provides examples of possible biological mechanisms that could, at least partly, explain the existing epidemiological evidence of heatwave-related exacerbation of mental disease morbidity. The author reviews the complicated central processes involved in the challenge of maintaining a stable body temperature in hot environments, and the maladaptive effects of certain psychiatric medicines on thermoregulation. In addition, the author discusses some alternative mechanisms, such as interrupted functional brain connectivity and the effect of disrupted sleep, which may further increase the vulnerability of mental health patients during heatwaves.

Content from External Source

It seems to be more about people's response to heatwaves and the possible side effects of some psychiatric medicines in said heatwaves. Maybe?

 

[serpentdebunker]

Best practice here is to include what you're talking about in relation to the linked source. My kid is a grad student in pharma-chemistry/med-chem working on Alzheimer's and has previously done work on Schizophrenia, so this caught my eye. From the link:

m) Solar activity may contribute to the development of and be a trigger of the exacerbation of nervous and mental disorders, such schizophrenia, Alzheimer’s disease, and multiple sclerosis [38]

Content from External Source

That's all it says, so we have to track down footnote #38 which is this:

37. Stoupel E (2006) Monthly new-borns number and environmental physical activity. Medicina 42.2: 238-241.
38.Lõhmus M (2018) Possible biological mechanisms linking mental health and heat-a contemplative review. Int J of Envir Research and Public Health 15(7): 1515.

Content from External Source

This leads us to a paywall, but the abstract doesn't mention Alzheimer's or Schizophrenia:

This review provides examples of possible biological mechanisms that could, at least partly, explain the existing epidemiological evidence of heatwave-related exacerbation of mental disease morbidity. The author reviews the complicated central processes involved in the challenge of maintaining a stable body temperature in hot environments, and the maladaptive effects of certain psychiatric medicines on thermoregulation. In addition, the author discusses some alternative mechanisms, such as interrupted functional brain connectivity and the effect of disrupted sleep, which may further increase the vulnerability of mental health patients during heatwaves.

Content from External Source

It seems to be more about people's response to heatwaves and the possible side effects of some psychiatric medicines in said heatwaves. Maybe?

I didn't notice that, that's an interesting find, as it would suggest that the paper that referenced it is implying that solar activity leads to heatwaves.

 

[deirdre]

This leads us to a paywall, but the abstract doesn't mention Alzheimer's or Schizophrenia:

did you click the upper right that says "open access"?

Article:

1. Introduction and Aim​

There is strong evidence that changing weather patterns associated with climate change are shifting the geographic range, seasonality, and transmission of certain diseases, and increasing morbidity and mortality associated with extreme weather events [1]. Due to the undertaken climate research, the understanding of the characteristics, timing, and spatial patterns of climate change has increased; and together with demonstrable changes in disease incidence and mortality, it has been possible to develop scientific methods that allow us to attribute a portion of the disease burden to climate change [1].
...
Mental illness has also been identified as a serious risk factor for death and illness during heat waves [8]. One of the underlying reasons may be that environmental awareness and the ability to initiate adaptive behaviors, such as increased fluid intake, appropriate planning of daily activities, or wearing appropriate clothing, may be compromised in some groups of mental health patients, such as those with Alzheimer’s disease, dementia, psychosis, schizophrenia, and developmental disabilities [14]. Accordingly, “Unable to care for oneself” has been identified as an important risk factor in heat-related mortality and may contribute to the ill-health in the above-mentioned groups of patients [8]. Another factor also contributing to the risk of death during heatwaves is the use of psychotropic medications. By interfering with physiological homeostasis, these medications increase the vulnerability in mental health patients, even when their cognition and ability to care for themselves is unaffected by the disorder [8]. Many antipsychotic, anticholinergic, antidepressant, sedative, mood stabilizing, and nervous system medicines increase heat vulnerability through inhibition of the adaptive thermoregulative activities of the body [63]. Some examples are given below.

Source: https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/15/7/1515

no mention of geomagnetic flares (used word search, didnt read whole paper)

 

[deirdre]

According to Wikipedia, it is theorized that this is because when Earth's magnetic field fluctuates, it messes up the pineal gland, causing health problems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_storm

Article:

Effect on animals[edit]
There is a large but controversial body of scientific literature on connections between geomagnetic storms and human health. This began with Russian papers, and the subject was subsequently studied by Western scientists. Theories for the cause include the involvement of cryptochrome, melatonin, the pineal gland, and the circadian rhythm.[54]

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_storm

54

1. James Close (7 June 2012). "Are stress responses to geomagnetic storms mediated by the cryptochrome compass system?". Proc Biol Sci. 279 (1736): 2081–2090. doi:10.1098/rspb.2012.0324. PMC 3321722. PMID 22418257.

 

[deirdre]

sounds like basic heat warning dehydration type issues if you quoted teh "mitigations"

Some news articles on this subject are now starting to include mentions about how geomagnetic storms are going to cause a myriad of health problems, and how to help mitigate them: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/weather/t...r&cvid=a1612a7a07bb44a0e7e28844b28de6f6&ei=10

"Magnetic storms can cause headaches, fatigue, insomnia, irritability, general discomfort, exacerbation of chronic illnesses, and even negatively impact a healthy individual."

Article:

Magnetic storms can cause headaches, fatigue, insomnia, irritability, general discomfort, exacerbation of chronic illnesses, and even negatively impact a healthy individual.

During such days, it is advisable to be extra cautious when driving, pay close attention to your well-being, and if possible, postpone long trips, important meetings, and negotiations.

To minimize the negative impact of increased solar activity, adhere to simple rules:

Spend more time outdoors during magnetic storm days, except the midday time (12-4 PM), when it's better to avoid direct sunlight. Include more water, fresh fruits, vegetables, and berries in your diet. Avoid elevated physical and mental stress and overexertion. Refrain from alcohol, fatty, spicy, and salty foods on these days. Instead, opt for light dishes, such as vegetables and poultry.

Source: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/weather/topstories/strong-magnetic-storm-raging-on-earth-and-will-last-for-several-days/ar-AA1lJLAH?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=a1612a7a07bb44a0e7e28844b28de6f6&ei=10

 

[FatPhil]

I didn't notice that, that's an interesting find, as it would suggest that the paper that referenced it is implying that solar activity leads to heatwaves.

No, it's taking:
SolarEffect1 => HumanResponse1
and concluding:
SolarEffect2 => HumanResponse2

I'm almost tempted to drop her an e-mail to see whether she likes being cited in such contexts, in particlular because of this interview with her as an Estonian scientist:

EESTI TEADLASED ON MEELDIVALT PEDANTSED

Content from External Source

-- http://eestiloodus.horisont.ee/artikkel2247_2228.html
Translation: "Estonian researchers/scientists are pleasingly pedantic"

Looks like she's a bird expert, dabbled with fish which is her husband's wheelhouse, and in the last decade has migrated towards human/environmental health issues (from a cursory scan of keywords in titles/abstracts here: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mare-Lohmus ). Her bird expertise seems to include migration, and thus disruptions to magnetic fields might not be off-topic for her at all. However, that cited paper is clearly about heat and nothing about magnetic effects. The only references to magnetism in that paper are in the context of using MR scanning. It's not beind a paywall at all, it's here:
https://www.researchgate.net/journa...al-Health-and-Heat-A-Contemplative-Review.pdf
via: https://www.researchgate.net/public...Mental_Health_and_Heat-A_Contemplative_Review

It seems like the person citing Mare has been infected with "it's all radiation, maaan!" woo.

 

[deirdre]

No, it's taking:
SolarEffect1 => HumanResponse1
and concluding:
SolarEffect2 => HumanResponse2

? can you translate this using different words please.

 

[FatPhil]

? can you translate this using different words please.

I genuinely don't think I can. To me there is simplicity in brevity, which the above certainly had.

I can try more words, and less reliance on layout:
It is taking a trusted result that one of the sun's actions on the earth is to cause a particular health effect on humans, and using that to erroniously conclude that a different action the sun can have on the earth causes different health effects on humans.

 

[Ann K]

sounds like basic heat warning dehydration type issues if you quoted teh "mitigations"

Article:

Magnetic storms can cause headaches, fatigue, insomnia, irritability, general discomfort, exacerbation of chronic illnesses, and even negatively impact a healthy individual.

During such days, it is advisable to be extra cautious when driving, pay close attention to your well-being, and if possible, postpone long trips, important meetings, and negotiations.

To minimize the negative impact of increased solar activity, adhere to simple rules:

Spend more time outdoors during magnetic storm days, except the midday time (12-4 PM), when it's better to avoid direct sunlight. Include more water, fresh fruits, vegetables, and berries in your diet. Avoid elevated physical and mental stress and overexertion. Refrain from alcohol, fatty, spicy, and salty foods on these days. Instead, opt for light dishes, such as vegetables and poultry.

Source: https://www.msn.com/en-gb/weather/topstories/strong-magnetic-storm-raging-on-earth-and-will-last-for-several-days/ar-AA1lJLAH?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=a1612a7a07bb44a0e7e28844b28de6f6&ei=10

This is a pop-news "according-to-experts" article, with (surprise!) none of those experts identified. I'm going to need a lot more scientific information before I believe it.

 

[deirdre]

I'm going to need a lot more scientific information before I believe it.

i know. the OP is kinda a gish gallop mess of "too much work to decipher".

 

[deirdre]

It is taking a trusted result that one of the sun's actions on the earth is to cause a particular health effect on humans, and using that to erroniously conclude that a different action the sun can have on the earth causes different health effects on humans.

so when you said "no." to @serpentdebunker you didnt mean what he wrote was wrong, just he worded it in a way Spock would find not thorough enough.

??
(which is fine, just trying to figure out why what serpent said is wrong? or not wrong?)

 

[FatPhil]

so when you said "no." to @serpentdebunker you didnt mean what he wrote was wrong, just he worded it in a way Spock would find not thorough enough.

??
(which is fine, just trying to figure out why what serpent said is wrong? or not wrong?)

By "no", I did mean what @serpentdebunker wrote was wrong. That's what "no" means.

He wrote: "[that Mare's paper is only about heat] an interesting find, as it would suggest that the paper that referenced it is implying that solar activity leads to heatwaves."

Mare's paper being only about heat does not suggest that at all. Mare's paper being about heat suggests that the new authors are citing an irrelevant paper. They're citing an irrelevant paper in order to support a claim that a the solar effect they are interested in has a human health effect that they are interested in. When in fact Mare's paper is about a different solar effect and a different health effect.

[impolite bit removed]

 

[JMartJr]

Since we're in "General Discussion," my general impression is that this is the latest offshoot of the sort of thinking that produces electromagnetic sensitivity claims, fear of 5g and wifi and things like Havana Syndrome. The huge range of diseases and conditions supposedly caused by a single source is always a bit of a red flag, as even more so is the list of general symptoms to which anybody might put up their hand if asked, allowing anybody to suppose they may be affected:

"Magnetic storms can cause headaches, fatigue, insomnia, irritability, general discomfort, exacerbation of chronic illnesses, and even negatively impact a healthy individual."

Content from External Source

And then the Pineal Gland is tossed in for good measure.

That all feels like somebody, somewhere, did some research and then some number of bodies seized it for the clickbait potential. Presumably special orgonites will be available to help mitigate the effects, soon if not already.

So those are my thoughts, with as always the caveat that maybe I'll be shown the error of my thinking as and if data continues to be made available, and crosses my line of sight.

Edit to add, this sat here since right after post 2 because I apparently forgot to hit "Post reply."

 

[Scaramanga]

All of a sudden, out of nowhere, within the past three years, there have been a myriad of studies all saying that fluctuations in Earth's magnetic are linked to a plethora of different health problems, including but not limited to:

My weight has gone up in line with inflation. That clearly means if inflation falls my weight will go down.

Correlation is not causation.

 

[serpentdebunker]

Therere are dozens of studies, which were done by different organizations, authors, in different countries, reporting statistically significant negative health effects and geomagnetic disturbances. For example, multiple studies reported statistically significant correlations between geomagnetic disturbances and myocardial infarction, and multiple studies reported correlations between geomagnetic disturbances and strokes. I understand correlation doesn't equal causation, but why have so many studies reported the same thing?

In animal studies related to this subject, epileptic rats exposed to fluctuations of a few nanoteslas per minute (to simulate geomagnetic disturbance) had more seizures. https://aepi.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s42494-020-00019-9

This study on Harvard's website also found statistically significant association between GMD and myocardial infarction

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2014cosp...40E1114G/abstract

It was shown statistically that during geomagnetic disturbances the frequency of myocardial infarction and brain stroke cases increased on the average by a factor of two in comparison with quiet geomagnetic conditions.

The study on Harvard's website was done over a period of 14 years and collected more than 25000 cases of acute myocardial infarction and brain stroke at seven medical hospitals located in Russia, China and some other countries.

The whole idea of geomagnetic disturbances affecting health is whether or not magnetic fluctuations on the order of a few dozen or few hundred nanotesla per minute can affect health. The changing magnetic field can induce voltages of up to 10 volts per km which can be dangerous for long range wired systems. The magnetic field strength of a fridge magnet is 40 militesla, or 40 000 000 Nanotesla [nT.)

 

[Mendel]

"Magnetic storms can cause headaches, fatigue, insomnia, irritability, general discomfort, exacerbation of chronic illnesses, and even negatively impact a healthy individual."

These are all placebo/nocebo effect symptoms.

I understand correlation doesn't equal causation, but why have so many studies reported the same thing?

Yes. Until that question is answered with a plausible mechanism, you cannot assume causation. Sometimes people see what they want to see.

The changing magnetic field can induce voltages of up to 10 volts per km which can be dangerous for long range wired systems.

Yes. But the human body extends for 2m, not for 1000s of meters.

The magnetic field strength of a fridge magnet is 40 militesla, or 40 000 000 Nanotesla [nT.)

I'm fairly certain that opening the fridge door is correlated with obesity. It'd be great if I could blame the fridge magnets.

The speakers that generate the music or podcasts you're listening to expose you to changing magnetic fields far in excess of any geomagnetic fluctuations.

 

[deirdre]

@Landru @Mick West this thread seems better suited for Open Discussion.

I agree with skeptics stack exchange when they say :

Article:

Please pick ONE claim so we are in no doubt what it is. "a myriad of health effects' This is the issue. Please pick one. "blaming magnetic field fluctuations" Some seem to be blaming long term cycles. Some seem to be blaming short term flares. Let's pick one.

Source: https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/56476/do-fluctuations-in-earths-magnetic-field-cause-health-problems

 

[serpentdebunker]

I just looked into MRI machines some more, as they are often brought up by skeptics when the topic of geomagnetic disturbances causing health effects is discussed. The magnetic field fluctuations in an MRI can reach 40 millitesla per minute (40 mT/min). 40 millitesla is 40,000,000 nanotesla (nT). It would seem strange that fluctuations of 50-500 nT/min would cause fatal health effects, but fluctuations of 40,000,000 nT/min wouldn't since the fluctuations in an MRI are millions of times stronger than Earth's magnetic field fluctuations during the strongest geomagnetic storms.

 

[John J.]

It was shown statistically that during geomagnetic disturbances the frequency of myocardial infarction and brain stroke cases increased on the average by a factor of two

You believe that during geomagnetic disturbances (and we'd need a quantitative definition of what constitutes a geomagnetic disturbance), MIs and CVAs double?!

Such a staggeringly enormous correlation should be very, very easy to demonstrate.

I'm surprised paramedic services, ERs/ A&Es and cardiac catheter/ cerebral thrombolysis labs don't keep themselves updated on space weather, and plan accordingly.

 

[serpentdebunker]

You believe that during geomagnetic disturbances (and we'd need a quantitative definition of what constitutes a geomagnetic disturbance), MIs and CVAs double?!

Such a staggeringly enormous correlation should be very, very easy to demonstrate.

I'm surprised paramedic services, ERs/ A&Es and cardiac catheter/ cerebral thrombolysis labs don't keep themselves updated on space weather, and plan accordingly.

It's not mentioned in the paper, but in general a geomagnetic storm is defined by Dst decreasing to less than −50 nT/min.

Their suggested mechanism is this:

Most probable that geomagnetic fluctuations (frequency) acting on blood, brain, adrenals involves the adaptation system. This leads to increasing a level of catecholamines in blood responsible for activation of the clotting system, rise in aggregation and spasm in the afferent vessels of the microcirculatory network. In persons suffering from CHD, the foreground problem is the reversibility of these pathological processes. Gurfinkel Yu.I. et al. The effect of geomagnetic disturbances in capillary blood flow in ischemic heart disease patients. // Biophysics. V.40, No 4, pp. 793-799, 1995. Gmitrov and C. Ohkubo (2002) Bioelectromagnetics 23:531-541. Breus, T.K., Halberg, F., and Cornelissen, G., Biological Effects of Solar Activity, Biofizika,1995, vol. 40, no. 4. Stoupel, E. Effect of geomagnetic activity on cardiovascular parameters. J.Clin. Basic Cardiol. 2, 34-40, 1999.

 

[Scaramanga]

It was shown statistically that during geomagnetic disturbances the frequency of myocardial infarction and brain stroke cases increased on the average by a factor of two in comparison with quiet geomagnetic conditions.

Health conditions can also be worsened by cold weather. Indeed, cold itself can bring on strokes in the susceptible. So...John Doe going outside in the freezing cold to view the aurora created by a geomagnetic storm could cause a stroke....without there being any direct electromagnetic cause.

This is why I am always wary of statistical 'correlations'. We have to be extremely suspicious of assigning causation if we cannot definitively link a cause.

 

[Landru]

Health conditions can also be worsened by cold weather. Indeed, cold itself can bring on strokes in the susceptible. So...John Doe going outside in the freezing cold to view the aurora created by a geomagnetic storm could cause a stroke....without there being any direct electromagnetic cause.

This is why I am always wary of statistical 'correlations'. We have to be extremely suspicious of assigning causation if we cannot definitively link a cause.

The study states that meteorological conditions were considered.

The analyzing data collected by the Moscow ambulance services covering more then one million observations over three years, cleaned up by seasonal effects of meteorological and social causes, showed that the number of cases of myocardial infarction increased during geomagnetic storms (Breus et al., 1995). During 14 years we collected more than 25000 cases of acute myocardial infarction and brain stroke at seven medical hospitals located in Russia, China and some other countries. We used only cases with established date of acute attack of diseases. Undated cases were excluded from the analysis. Average numbers of patients on geomagnetic active days and days with quiet geomagnetic condition were compared. It was shown statistically that during geomagnetic disturbances the frequency of myocardial infarction and brain stroke cases increased on the average by a factor of two in comparison with quiet geomagnetic conditions.

https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2014cosp...40E1114G/abstract

 

[Scaramanga]

The study states that meteorological conditions were considered.

And yet, this paper includes meteorological data and yet bizarrely concludes that there is a correlation between heart attacks ( but no evidence for strokes ) and geomagnetic activity......whilst at the same time stating....

"No statistically significant associations were found in spring and summer seasons in the models adjusted for PM2.5 (Table (Table33)." ( PM2.5 is particles in the air greater than 2.5 microns )

" In these models, the associations between GMD and CVD and MI were only statistically significant in winter"

So this study found that geomagnetic disturbances do have a higher incidence of CVD effect....only in winter.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739933/

 

[deirdre]

The study states that meteorological conditions were considered.

and this 2019 study considered small particulate matter levels. although this study says no association with stroke.

It was shown statistically that during geomagnetic disturbances the frequency of myocardial infarction and brain stroke cases increased on the average by a factor of two in comparison with quiet geomagnetic conditions.

Article:

Methods
We employed a two-step meta-analysis approach, in which we estimated city-specific and season-stratified mortality risk associated with a GMD parameter (Kp index) in 263 U.S. cities. In addition, sensitivity analysis was performed to assess whether effect modification of particulate matter (PM2.5) in the prior day changed Kp index effects on daily deaths after adjusting for confounders.

Results
We found significant association between daily GMD and total, CVD, and MI deaths. The effects were even stronger when we adjusted the models for 24-h PM2.5 for different seasons. For example, in the winter and fall one standard deviation of z-score Kp index increase was associated with a 0.13 and 0.31% increase in total deaths, respectively (Winter: p = 0.01, 95% CI: 0.02 to 0.24; Fall: p = 0.00001; 95% CI: 0.23 to 0.4), without adjusting for PM2.5. The effects of GMD on total deaths were also observed in spring and summer in the models without PM2.5 (p = 0.00001). When the models were adjusted for PM2.5 the total deaths increased 0.47% in winter (p = 0.00001, 95% CI: 0.3 to 0.65) and by 0.23% in fall (p = 0.001, 95% CI: 0.09 to 0.37). The effects of GMD were also significant associated with MI deaths and CVD. No positive significant association were found between Kp and stroke. The GMD effects on deaths were higher than for 24 h-PM2.5 alone, especially in spring and fall.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739933/

 

[deirdre]

So this study found that geomagnetic disturbances do have a higher incidence of CVD effect....only in winter.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739933/

lol jinx. you owe me a coke.

 

[Scaramanga]

lol jinx. you owe me a coke.

What I find questionable in these studies is that they are quite happy to graphically illustrate the sun's 11 year solar cycle, which clearly affects the rate of geomagnetic storms considerably, so you'd think there'd be a corresponding overlay graph for heart attacks, etc.....but no...their 'adjusted' data is all packed into obscure lines and columns. WHY do they need to delineate summer and winter, or even specific days, when if their hypothesis is correct there ought to be a very clearly obvious graph of cardiovascular conditions that could be lined up with the solar cycle to the extent that over an 11 year period one could overlay one on the other ?

 

[Landru]

So this study found that geomagnetic disturbances do have a higher incidence of CVD effect....only in winter.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6739933/

Include the evidence you are referring to. It is required by the Posting Guidelines.

 

[Scaramanga]

Include the evidence you are referring to. It is required by the Posting Guidelines.

I did quote direct from the article...though I don't know how to put it in a little box like Deirdre did.

 

[deirdre]

I did quote direct from the article...though I don't know how to put it in a little box like Deirdre did.

you can click (pink arrow) these quotes. or i usually type (black) the ex code then paste the quote between the brackets.



or to do it all fancy (like mine above) https://www.metabunk.org/threads/how-to-use-ex-and-article-tags-for-quoting-external-content.525/

 

[Mendel]

I did quote direct from the article...though I don't know how to put it in a little box like Deirdre did.

use these

Do not use the quote (") button for external material. Quote formatting is used to quote other people's posts, and should be added automatically when you use the "Reply" link or mark text and use the "Reply" popup.

 

[Mendel]

You believe that during geomagnetic disturbances (and we'd need a quantitative definition of what constitutes a geomagnetic disturbance), MIs and CVAs double?!

Such a staggeringly enormous correlation should be very, very easy to demonstrate.

Stoupel, E. Effect of geomagnetic activity on cardiovascular parameters. J.Clin. Basic Cardiol. 2, 34-40, 1999.
( https://www.kup.at/journals/jcbc/ had its final issue in 2013.)
https://www.kup.at/kup/pdf/26.pdf

Compare:

It's not mentioned in the paper, but in general a geomagnetic storm is defined by Dst decreasing to less than −50 nT/min.

I'd like to see a source on this, because that is a completely different definition both in terms of the number and the time scale.

Back to the paper cited above:

The fact that larger n makes the statistical significance worse is weird.
And why are there 164 outpatients, but only n=123 of them were considered?

When these results happen to not reproduce, we get excuses:

It's the multi-year solar cycle that makes the findings not reproduce!

Without delving too deeply, a lot of this looks like bad statistics. When you monitor dozens of parameters against shifting definitions of magnetic activity ("geomagnetic anticipatory decrease in heart rate a day before the higher global geomagnetic activity", from the OP) until you find something, but then compute statistic significance (the p-value) as if you had only looked at one parameter instead of the whole fishing expedition, you're going to get some good-looking results that reproduce badly and have no plausible mechanism (because they're essentially random coincidence).

Spoiler: xkcd comic on significance

Significant

So, uh, we did the green study again and got no link. It was probably a-- "RESEARCH CONFLICTED ON GREEN JELLY BEAN/ACNE LINK; MORE STUDY RECOMMENDED!"
https://xkcd.com/882/

 

[Mendel]

The changing magnetic field can induce voltages of up to 10 volts per km which can be dangerous for long range wired systems.

My hypothesis: GMA affects phone systems, leading to longer response times for first responders, leading to higher mortality in outpatient myocardial infarctions. Research that one!

 

[FatPhil]

The speakers that generate the music or podcasts you're listening to expose you to changing magnetic fields far in excess of any geomagnetic fluctuations.

If we're talking not just magnetic flux density, but *fluctuations* in magnetic flux density, and magnetic flux density is a vector field, wouldn't somebody who turns around a lot see way more fluctuations than someone who remains stationary? One minute the field's pointing from your front to your back, the next minute the field's pointing from your back to your front. Heaven forfend that this shock on your system induces you to lie down and take a rest, as then the field could be pointing from your head to your toes!

Has someone analysed MCI data from ice skaters, I see a real high risk category there?!

 

[Mendel]

If we're talking not just magnetic flux density, but *fluctuations* in magnetic flux density, and magnetic flux density is a vector field, wouldn't somebody who turns around a lot see way more fluctuations than someone who remains stationary? One minute the field's pointing from your front to your back, the next minute the field's pointing from your back to your front. Heaven forfend that this shock on your system induces you to lie down and take a rest, as then the field could be pointing from your head to your toes!

Has someone analysed MCI data from ice skaters, I see a real high risk category there?!

Cause of Formula 1/NASCAR Crashes explained!

 

[John J.]

My hypothesis: GMA affects phone systems, leading to longer response times for first responders, leading to higher mortality in outpatient myocardial infarctions. Research that one!

You beat me to it.

Alaska: High latitude, cold weather, paramedic services responsible for large areas and some relatively isolated communities and homes. Poorer phone/ radio performance during GMA.

 

[serpentdebunker]

If we're talking not just magnetic flux density, but *fluctuations* in magnetic flux density, and magnetic flux density is a vector field, wouldn't somebody who turns around a lot see way more fluctuations than someone who remains stationary? One minute the field's pointing from your front to your back, the next minute the field's pointing from your back to your front. Heaven forfend that this shock on your system induces you to lie down and take a rest, as then the field could be pointing from your head to your toes!

Has someone analysed MCI data from ice skaters, I see a real high risk category there?!

That's interesting. Makes me also wonder if walking past a fridge with a bunch of magnets on it would induce greater fluctuations on the body in comparison to magnetic storms.

 

[Scaramanga]

Such a staggeringly enormous correlation should be very, very easy to demonstrate.

Well yes, you'd think so. But here's the truly baffling bit. They are looking for individual medical cases on days when there was geomagnetic activity. Such geomagnetic activity is fairly random over the course of an individual year, so they have to do all manner of statistical jiggery pokery to 'adjust' the data. Hmm. BUT....the Sun actually has an 11 year cycle that is far less random that daily events. So why are they not looking for a statistical correlation with the solar cycle rather than individual daily events ?

I mean, geomagnetic disturbance levels rise and fall with the solar cycle. If their hypothesis is valid then medical events should show correlation with that cycle. What could be more clear evidence than to be able to overlay the solar cycle with the curve for medical events ? Yet no such graph is presented. Perhaps because the study period was too short ( i.e they did not have 11 years available ).....but I really would want to see an overlay with the solar cycle before I believed any of their hypothesis.

 

[John J.]

Well yes, you'd think so.

What would be useful is the day-by-day hospital admission figures for (e.g.) MI, CVA for a nation in a year where there was marked solar/ geomagnetic activity on specific dates.
Naively, I thought such information (well, the daily admissions bit) would be quite easy to find, but I've not had much luck so far.

In the USA, approximately 805,000 people have a heart attack (MI: myocardial infarction) every year- roughly 2200 per day
(Centers for Disease Control and Prevention online article "Heart Disease Facts",
https://www.cdc.gov/heartdisease/facts.htm).
Large temporally discrete fluctuations from this average daily figure might be reasonably easy to spot.

Maybe the admissions figures for a European nation (or Japan, Australia, New Zealand, other developed countries) will be online somewhere.

 

[Scaramanga]

What would be useful is the day-by-day hospital admission figures for (e.g.) MI, CVA for a nation in a year where there was marked solar/ geomagnetic activity on specific dates.
Naively, I thought such information (well, the daily admissions bit) would be quite easy to find, but I've not had much luck so far.

The real problem is that with pretty much random daily geomagnetic fluctuations one has to do all manner of adjusting to take into account weather, pollution, man made magnetic fluctuations...etc etc. On the other hand, few of these other factors have an 11 year cycle. So if you can fit the medical conditions to the 11 year solar cycle then that in itself eliminates much of the need for adjusting out external factors.

This all reminds me of claims...I'm sure I've seen them made....that crimes increase with the full Moon. Gonna have to look that one up and see if the evidence stacks up.