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  1. DavidB66

    Speculation: Did the US shoot down its own weather balloons over Alaska/Canada?

    The British found it very difficult to shoot down German Zeppelins in WWI, even though they were full of inflammable hydrogen. Ordinary bullets just went right through and left a slow leak of hydrogen out of the resulting holes. Even incendiary bullets didn't work, as inside the Zeppelin there...
  2. DavidB66

    Baltic Pipeline Discussion (Current Events)

    Not in the Baltic, but may be relevant for comparison, the UK Times today (paywalled) reports Dutch intelligence claims to have intercepted Russian attempts to survey energy installations, pipelines, etc, in the North Sea near The Netherlands:
  3. DavidB66

    Unidentified Objects/Balloons Intercepted by US aircraft

    Possibly useful for assessing the blowing-in-the-wind hypothesis, whether the object is an ice shanty, a piece of plastic, or whatever, this table from the University of Sussex (England) shows the force against a flat surface of winds at various speeds. E.g. for a wind of 100 kmph, the force...
  4. DavidB66

    Unidentified Objects/Balloons Intercepted by US aircraft

    Out of curiosity I tried to find out how much these 'ice shanty' things weigh. I started by looking on Amazon (UK). I found several items described as 'portable' and weighing about 13 or 14 kilos. I didn't see the 'Clam' brand listed on Amazon, but I did find a separate listing for the Clam...
  5. DavidB66

    Unidentified Objects/Balloons Intercepted by US aircraft

    Seems unlikely, but a while ago I posted a link to a video of what looked like a children's paddling pool blowing in the wind at least 100 feet up. Turbulent winds would produce a kind of 'random walk' motion, so it would be a matter of probability how high an object might get to. (Sorry, I...
  6. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    Various sources, including Reuters, are claiming that the target was Hawaii as well as Guam. (All citing anonymous US official sources.) That would give China coverage of major US Navy and Air Force bases in the Pacific, which would presumably be of great interest to China if they are...
  7. DavidB66

    Unidentified Objects/Balloons Intercepted by US aircraft

    I'm posting the following article from the online Independent newspaper as it seems to contain more detailed and explicit information on at least two of the 'objects', quoting a 'memo' reportedly sent from the Pentagon to Congress. This is still second-hand and unverified information, but...
  8. DavidB66

    Unidentified Objects/Balloons Intercepted by US aircraft

    I agree with that interpretation of the statement. The 'something else' might be something like a slow-moving drone, but it might also be something (other than a balloon) just drifting turbulently with the wind, like a runaway kite or a sheet of plastic. The UAPTF report used the term...
  9. DavidB66

    Speculation: Did the US shoot down its own weather balloons over Alaska/Canada?

    In case the allusions are unfamiliar to younger generations than mine, the phrases 'moon of Alabama' and 'whiskey bar' both come from the English lyrics of 'Alabama Song', with music by Kurt Weill and original German lyrics by Bertold Brecht. ('Show me the way to the next whiskey bar...' etc. )...
  10. DavidB66

    Speculation: Did the US shoot down its own weather balloons over Alaska/Canada?

    The Canadian general speaks quite briefly at about 21:30 and refers almost casually to taking down the balloon. I don't think we can yet take this as a considered statement on the nature of the object, but it does suggest what the military thought they were dealing with at the time. I was...
  11. DavidB66

    Speculation: Did the US shoot down its own weather balloons over Alaska/Canada?

    A report from a Canadian newspaper gives a little more information about the object shot down over Canada. The Canadian defence Minister is quoted as saying that the object was smaller than the 'Chinese' balloon and 'cylindrical in nature'. A Canadian military officer is quoted as explicitly...
  12. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    Yes. Once they are emptied, they have no further effect in raising altitude - just like dumping the last of your ballast. If the helium (or hydrogen) content of the balloon is constant, I suppose it could stay at the maximum intended altitude indefinitely. But balloons tend to leak. With...
  13. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    Good point, though the ability of the ballonet system to increase altitude must be limited by the volume of the ballonets. Once all the air has been pumped out of them, that's it. In that sense they are just a substitute for conventional ballast, which may or may not be more efficient. It...
  14. DavidB66

    Claim: Original Calvine UFO Photo

    I typed out substantial extracts from the Fortean Times article [NB spelling] in #169 of the thread on 'Calvine photo hoax theories'. That post (and a previous one) also detailed a way of accessing Fortean Times for free using a free trial of an aggregation service. Several points in the...
  15. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    From one of the documents linked at #126 above: Either: 1. The Pentagon has been misreported. 2. A Pentagon spokesperson has misused the term 'hovering' when they just mean something like 'not moving noticeably for some time'. 3. The balloon really does have the ability to maintain its...
  16. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    Today's Sunday Times (UK, paywalled, and apparently finalised before the balloon was shot down), has a long article about the case. It includes the following paragraph: No source is cited for these claims. The article itself is credited to Ian Williams, author of a book The Fires of the...
  17. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    On the face of it, balloons are physically incapable of 'loitering'. They go where the wind takes them. This particular balloon does seem to have had some rotating parts on its 'payload' which have been described as propellers (see the video linked at #10 for a fairly clear view of them). I...
  18. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    Maybe. Even probably. But two possible motives: 1. Plausible deniability. 2. Hiding in plain sight. On the second, it might seem wildly improbable, to the point of absurdity, that the Soviets (or their bloc allies) would have spies planted in top counter-espionage jobs of their Cold War...
  19. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    Would that work if the balloon is drifting at the same speed as the wind? Maybe if there is some kind of updraft, which the weight of the balloon resists? Or could it work from variations in wind speed? If the wind alternately speeds up and slows down, the inertia of the balloon and its...
  20. DavidB66

    Is this a Chinese spy balloon?

    The video does seem to show some parts of the payload moving (rotating around a horizontal axis), but I doubt they are propellers. Whatever they are, they are small in relation to the balloon, and without some means of stabilization (such as the tail vanes of Zeppelins and other dirigibles)...
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