Ron James UFO crashed UFO pictures

[Z.W. Wolf]

We are also embarrassed and ashamed at the sheer nastiness of some people who clearly have no problem spewing venom from the safety of their keyboards.

IMO, this is a rationalization. A self-serving rhetorical trick. He's devaluing the criticism and patting himself on the back in a what a good boy am I, look at the unmelted butter in my mouth fashion.

When you seriously and solemnly present a photo which is intuitively phony, you deserve a negative reaction. Especially when it's being used to tease a for profit project.

 

[John J.]

...in the sheer nastiness of some individuals, we also have a pretty good example of why the aliens are not talking to us.

Content from External Source

That'll be it. Extraterrestrials are monitoring Reddit, Metabunk or whatever in near-real-time, meaning they've travelled light years to get here (or at least within a light-day or two of here), but they're so appalled by people giving Ron James a hard time on the internet that they've called off making contact with Homo sapiens. -Maybe Ron's taking himself a bit too seriously.

(In fairness to Ron, whatever his mistakes, he doesn't deserve to be trolled or abused online.)

The part where he does directly address the idea of it being a diorama/having toy soldiers is this bit at 3:20

We considered that and we would still consider it, but we haven't found anything that definitively proves it

Content from External Source

We have this photo (I've cropped it & added arrows) of Mr. James with his photo,



-it's clearly at the very least a similar picture to the B&W picture posted by @Calter in the OP
(in passing, additional thanks to Calter, this has been fun)




Three figures are visible- I think it's likely they would be visible in the photo James holds (indicated by arrows).

So it seems a bit disingenuous for Ron to now say

The presence of a third matching individual in another version of this shot concurs, in my opinion, that this is indeed a diorama constructed using that kit, which we found out is “German Soldiers at Rest” from 1984.

Content from External Source

Posted by @MonkeySage here.

Ron James' earlier reference to the model theory explanation, "...we haven't found anything that definitively proves it" implies that it is the role of sceptics to prove that his photo is a hoax. But it is James (and perhaps by extension MUFON) who are presenting it as possible evidence of a crashed alien spacecraft. It is for them to find evidence that substantiates their claim, not just disseminate dross and say "Prove it's not aliens!"
And they failed to give their photo even a cursory critical examination.

Why are 1950's US troops apparently wearing jackboots and Stahlhelms? The picture quality is poor, and details are ambiguous, but James / MUFON should have at least asked themselves, "is the picture showing what we would expect to see regarding US military personnel?".
"In images of real troops guarding items of strategic interest, or assessing possibly dangerous vehicles/ objects, do we see men sat on camp chairs facing away from the item in question?"

They failed to assess the relative likelihoods: Whatever James' / MUFON's beliefs, there aren't any confirmed photos of crashed alien spacecraft.
Agencies of the United States government have made it clear that they don't possess any alien tech, and none has ever been recovered in the USA (or anywhere else) that they know of, and they don't know if extraterrestrial life exists.
We have no demonstrable evidence of any form of extraterrestrial life anywhere yet.
But there are pictures of loads of model dioramas on the internet featuring UFOs. (Just do an image search).

Someone- possibly a child or teenager- makes a diorama with Tamiya's "German Soldiers At Rest", released in 1984 and still marketed, with something about 1 foot diameter as a flying saucer, all on a base probably less than 18" per side.

(My very rough-and ready size estimates, done while this topic was still hot; click to enlarge if interested)



-And because of an indistinct photo of this piece of model-making Mr James/ MUFON share the possibility with millions of Americans, and others overseas, that their government (and/ or military) has been lying for decades.
And that intelligent extraterrestrial life has visited Earth in the recent past.

Frankly, dreadfully weak evidence, from the outset, for such incredibly significant (if implied) claims.
Maybe Mr James / MUFON can learn something from this.

They don't deserve to be trolled; they do deserve to be embarrassed if they really think they are helping uncover "the truth".

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

It's reasonable to assume that this public domain photo has been bootlegged over and over. There must be copies of copies of copies.

This display copy is in a frame. The glass may be tinted. The print may be tinted. The blue tint may at least be partially due to preferential absorption of long-wavelength (reddish) light... Who knows?


I wonder what you really get when you fork over your sawbuck. A photographic print? At that price, I doubt it. Or do you get an ordinary printer copy of a JPEG file that started life as a scan from a book? Or a scan of a photographic print that's a copy of a copy?

I also wonder how many people buy this from honest wonder, or as an ironic gesture the way they'd buy a postcard of a giant jackalope from a giftshop in Yellowstone Park. Or maybe in ironic tribute to Dale Gribble...

 

[Mendel]

And because of an indistinct photo of this piece of model-making Mr James/ MUFON share the possibility with millions of Americans, and others overseas, that their government (and/ or military) has been lying for decades.

I wonder if Ron James would call this "nasty" if the shoe was on the other foot?

That'll be it. Extraterrestrials are monitoring Reddit, Metabunk or whatever in near-real-time, meaning they've travelled light years to get here (or at least within a light-day or two of here), but they're so appalled by people giving Ron James a hard time on the internet that they've called off making contact with Homo sapiens. -Maybe Ron's taking himself a bit too seriously.

When I first saw his remark, I thought, "he's left the high road here, lashing out like that".
But the remark actually does betray a messianic view of aliens, and the idea that everyone must abide by the divine law for redemption to occur.

 

[Mendel]

When you seriously and solemnly present a photo which is intuitively phony, you deserve a negative reaction. Especially when it's being used to tease a for profit project.

Note that even the statement that Greenwald reproduced is advertising their symposium and his film.
And that he's "embarrassed and ashamed" not at his misrepresenting the photograph, but at the people calling him out for it (and the profiteering).
If you were an extraterrestrial, would you want Ron James to sell a film about you?

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

The two instances we have of this photo vary in detail. Without a better example I'm not going into detail... but what I intuitively see here is not a diorama but a pre-photoshop cut and paste composite with several layers.

To give an example of what I mean. here's Terry Gilliam showing how things are cut out and pasted.

 

[FatPhil]

Unfortunately, in the sheer nastiness of some individuals, we also have a pretty good example of why the aliens are not talking to us.

Ron is fessing up because he's been caught, and it wasn't his group that did the work; it was the "nasty" people who actually brought some facts, the nerve of them! But he still sticks in a nonsense statement like that at the end of his confession, so I'm going to assume he doesn't really want to be taken seriously in his search for "truth".

Is he implicitly calling all the people in the UFO community who claim that they have had contact with aliens liars?
He built his castle on the sand. Then the rains came. What does he want, sympathy? And what's the fact that he entered into a dodgy deal with someone over a previous movie got to do with the price of eggs in china, as it sounds like he's fishing for more sympathy?

I can't say I'd heard of that previous documentary. (I've just started watching it now.)

This is the only UFO documentary ever mentioned in a congressional hearing by name.

Content from External Source

-- http://mufontelevision.com/atinsider/

So the people you mention are happy to mention you? That just makes you part of the mutual pat-on-the-back society which so many people have criticised for being nothing apart from a mutual-pat-on-the-back society. If they're grifters, and you're shilling for them, then you're also a grifter, and they've just shilled for you.

The US Government and private industries are in possession of non-human technology. They are engaged in programs to reverse engineer the technology and more.

The story is true.

Content from External Source

So it's going to just be the same old believer fare, unsubstantiated factual claims presented uncritically?

Priors suitably updated.

 

[FatPhil]

I can't say I'd heard of that previous documentary. (I've just started watching it now.)

From which I quote:

01:22:10,200 --> 01:22:14,058
Chris Mellon continues to work quietly behind the scenes

Content from External Source

Yet:

Mellon assisted in production and worked with former Pentagon Director of AATIP, Luis Elizondo as a cast member for the cable television network History that distributes the shows series Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation.[13]

Content from External Source

-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Mellon

So that's "behind the scenes" as in "in front of and behind the camera".

It was terrible - exactly as terrible as I was expecting - I gave it 2/10 on IMDB as the production values aren't /that/ bad, even if they are beyond cheesy. I'm just glad I managed to not put my foot through my monitor for the whole 90 minutes.

 

[Easy Muffin]

As a small aside, what immediately made me think miniature model is the shallow depth of field. If this were a real, life-sized scene then you'd expect the soldiers, the UFO and the trees to be in focus but in this case it looks like the camera focussed only on the trees and the rear part of the saucer, with the objects in front and behind being out of focus and slightly blurred.
That's a hallmark of close-up photography:

 

[MyMatesBrainwashed]

and there's a whole bunch of other corroborating evidence of this story and we are investigating all of them

I wonder if we'll get to hear any of this now.

It's be nice to know what made them blind to the pretty obvious.

 

[Calter]

It's be nice to know what made them blind to the pretty obvious.

I think that "debunking" a case can be approached by asking "Could this be real" and "Could this be fake", and many believers approach new data by just asking "Could this be real". Sticking strictly to either thinking is bound to make people make mistakes and not notice things that in hindsight would be obvious.

So, they heard a story about a squadron of jets used in a civil defense airwing in the 50s, their research showed there was indeed a squadron of jets at the time and location given, it also showed there were indeed stories about UFOs getting shot down by jets and apparently even project Blue Book has a case that could be a match. They got a picture of something that was meant to have happened in Oregon and they confirmed the trees look like what you would expect, etc.

I don't think they ever approached the case as "if this were fake, what's off about this", which is the thinking people that noticed the soldiers look like toys had.

 

[jarlrmai]

Which is a bit of big blind spot given the number of fakes, hoaxes and prosaic explanations for UFO photos and videos is much larger than the 0 that are known to be real (insert whatever mental gymnastics you prefer as to whatever real means to you with regards to UFOs.)

 

[Calter]

Ron James showed a new picture that they have

Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1806331580195234043

So, Michael Schratt looked at this image with me, he says that these little platforms this thing is on is consistent with the kind of platforms that the military would have used as such time to support such a structure

So anyways, there it is, this can be round two, let's get you guys working on it, I'm not reporting that this is anything, so, don't shoot the messenger

I'm trying really hard here, and I can't see anything but a few domino-like pieces to "support the structure" and a toy soldier that's posing with really stiff arms.

 

[Duke]

Ron James showed a new picture that they have

Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1806331580195234043







I'm trying really hard here, and I can't see anything but a few domino-like pieces to "support the structure" and a toy soldier that's posing with really stiff arms.

That looks more like a still taken from one of Gerry Anderson's "supermarionation" puppet series from the 60s/70s.

 

[jdog]

Ron James showed a new picture that they have

Source: https://x.com/blackvaultcom/status/1806331580195234043







I'm trying really hard here, and I can't see anything but a few domino-like pieces to "support the structure" and a toy soldier that's posing with really stiff arms.

That figure on the right gives it really Gerry Anderson Thunderbirds vibes.

 

[Ravi]

Agreed about the miniature feel the picture from @Calter #53 has.
Also, what is going on in the picture? Why is there a strong light-dark difference? Is this real or from any processing?

 

[JMartJr]

That looks more like a still taken from one of Gerry Anderson's "supermarionation" puppet series from the 60s/70s.

That figure on the right gives it really Gerry Anderson Thunderbirds vibes.

Gerry Anderson DID do a UFO series, a live action series that I watched some of many years ago. The UFOs from that series do not match this one, though, unless there was an episode with some atypical UFO being captured...

 

[Ravi]

Even Reddit is not convinced. And that says something..

 

[JMartJr]

Just noticed this, been tying knots on some kite projects today so it leaped out at me:

That does not look like a full-sized rope rigged up in a hanger, it looks like some string threaded through a hole in whatever that arm is, with a stopper-knot tied in the end.

 

[Z.W. Wolf]

Reported as a disabled "space cruiser" in Culver California, 1956. C-57D seems to be a government code name. It was later able to take off on its own power. So, Michael Schratt looked at this image with me, he says that these little platforms this thing is on is consistent with the kind of platforms that the military would have used as such time to support such a structure

So anyways, there it is, this can be round three, let's get you guys working on it, I'm not reporting that this is anything, so, don't shoot the messenger.

 

[Ann K]

Best I can do, to clean up the image of the person. To me it looks like a walking female figure in a red dress, carrying something of another color - a bunch of flowers in each hand, perhaps? OK, model makers, do your best model-fu with this.

 

[Duke]

Best I can do, to clean up the image of the person. To me it looks like a walking female figure in a red dress, carrying something of another color - a bunch of flowers in each hand, perhaps? OK, model makers, do your best model-fu with this.

Kinda looks like this guy.

 

[Ann K]

It's be nice to know what made them blind to the pretty obvious.

Publicity. A movie to tout. A position of importance among his fellow believers. But I think the most significant factor is a quasi-religious belief that aliens are here to be seen and contacted, and that his group is destined to do the contacting. If that's what a person really wants to believe, he is unlikely to be persuaded otherwise. The attitude is "the aliens won't talk to us if you scare them off", and a grudging admission that his favorite photo is a fake is followed immediately "but see, how about this one?"

 

[FatPhil]

I'm trying really hard here, and I can't see anything but a few domino-like pieces to "support the structure" and a toy soldier that's posing with really stiff arms.

I absolutely can't see anything but dominoes! In fact, exactly the pieces I should be playing with in the pub right now. I will have to recreate that part of the scene tomorrow.

On the doll, the shoulders absolutely say "jointed" to me. And not jointed in a nice organic way with squidgy pliable flesh and muscle between upper arm and chest. Jointed in a "needs to stick out just a little bit more than is natural in order to be dressable and get the full range of orientations because there's absolutely no give in the plastic" way.

And why's the scene lit that way? Everything about the lighting of that scene says "not a real room" - things that should be illuminated are dark, things that should not be illuminated are brightly lit - there's even a specular reflection on the underside of the craft, that makes no sense at all. It's lit from over the cameraman's right shoulder. It's a 3-sided cardboard box, I bet you. With no top, obviously, as the shiny things on the right are showing it's lighter up there than in the shadow they're sitting in, yet it's not light enough to actually illuminate the room - therefore no roof, no lights, only radiosity.

So exactly how much "looking" did these experts actually do? "don't shoot the messenger", eh? /me scrambles the B52...

 

[Mendel]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-57D

The United Planets Cruiser C-57D is a fictional starship featured in MGM's 1956 science fiction film Forbidden Planet. The design used for the starship is a flying saucer, inspired by the spate of UFO sightings during the 1950s

Content from External Source

Kits of this thing abound.

 

[Domzh]

at this point hes straight up trolling

 

[JMartJr]

Reported as a disabled "space cruiser" in Culver California, 1956. C-57D seems to be a government code name. It was later able to take off on its own power. So, Michael Schratt looked at this image with me, he says that these little platforms this thing is on is consistent with the kind of platforms that the military would have used as such time to support such a structure

I'm confused, where does the reference to C-57D come from? Is it from Ron James, or is it your proposed identification of the model, or something else?

I'm not seeing the proportions of the Forbidden Planet cruiser in the image James posted at all.

Unless it is some sort of fan build or something?

 

[Calter]

I'm confused, where does the reference to C-57D come from? Is it from Ron James, or is it your proposed identification of the model, or something else?

I'm not seeing the proportions of the Forbidden Planet cruiser in the image James posted at all.

Pretty sure they are just making a joke, mocking the way Ron presented this picture that looks ridiculous, by presenting a movie poster in a similar way.

 

[John J.]

I can't see anything but a few domino-like pieces to "support the structure" and a toy soldier that's posing with really stiff arms.

Agree. Unless it's a quirk of ET technology that they can only land on giant mah-jong tiles/ white plastic dominoes.

There are loads of examples of UFO-related dioramas online, posted by modellers showing their skills or just for their own/ their friend's entertainment, just like other hobbyists document their pastimes. (Click to enlarge).




Can't help but feel that for a couple of these, if someone took a narrow focus photo from the right angle and then suitably reduced the picture quality, they'd have "possible evidence" of the most momentous event in recent history for Ron James and MUFON to be willingly taken in by study in an impartial and scientific investigation.

We were lucky that the figures used in James' (OP) photo appear to have been largely "built from the box"; many modelmakers are well-practiced at converting shop-bought figures into original poses.

Plastic limbs can be straightened or bent with careful heating and cooling, or substituted with a corresponding part from another figure; careful filing and use of Green Stuff-type modelling putty allows joins to be imperceptible. Heads/ headgear are often easy to transplant. Unwanted webbing straps, pockets and buttons etc. can be filed down, and new ones added as required using plasticard or Green Stuff. Backpacks, webbing pouches, weapons can be cannibalised from other kits, or scratch-built, or sometimes bought as separate sets (particularly WW2 German, WW2 to modern US, British and Soviet/ Russian gear).
Green Stuff can add scrim/ foliage to helmets, hiding their origins, likewise facial features can be changed, beards added etc.

It's alarming to think that had the diorama-maker of James' photo been a bit more original/ experienced in model-making,
the source of the "soldiers" would have been unidentifiable.
Something maybe made in a fourteen year-old's bedroom on a pocket money budget would still be touted as possible evidence of US government agencies (including AARO) lying, and of ETI visits to Earth.
(As others here have noted, digital image manipulation will allow far more sophisticated fakes).
Maybe James/ MUFON will develop a protocol to take into account the possibility of this type of hoax, but I doubt it.

They are serial type-1 error makers; "evidence" which conforms to their prejudices is seen as confirmatory (or at least potentially so) regardless of source, likelihood or indeed in-evidence contradictions (e.g. the US troops with perhaps WW2 German boots and helmets). Evidence against their hypotheses is resisted, unless it is overwhelming and they realise they're courting ridicule.
This isn't how science works (well, not testable non-pathological science anyway), but maybe MUFON's people wouldn't get on TV so often / get so many viewing hits if they were took a more prosaic view of claimed evidence.
The truth they claim to pursue might not be as exciting as they (and some viewers/ surfers) would want it to be.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Like on other threads with unidentified but probably hoax UFOs, there must be lots of possible candidates for James' saucer.

It appears misshapen (unless it was always an irregular shape). It's probably about 1 foot/ 30.48 cm diameter.
I've wondered about the two small circular bumps/ marks on the centre "disc". Maybe rivets, or injection-mould marks?



If the central disc/ dome was a separate object, it has some resemblance to a wall-bell, though most of those have a single, central point of attachment (which seems sensible).

There's the usual suspects- an old wheel-trim or battered lid from some cooking vessel etc.
We don't know it's metal; maybe a spray-painted frisbee? Well, a slightly warped frisbee?
For some reason it made me think of the underside of an old-style plastic bedpan/ commode insert, but I don't think it is.

Tried an image search, got this lid from a Kazakh website
but of course similar items might be found in the USA!


__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Gerry Anderson DID do a UFO series

UFO, with Gabrielle Drake as Lieutenant Gay Ellis (sigh). Set partly on the Moonbase, in the future year of... 1980!



In real life, Gabrielle's brother was musician Nick Drake, who is much more widely appreciated now than during his life.
And I never had the courage to ask the gf to wear a metallic purple wig.

 

[Mendel]

Something maybe made in a fourteen year-old's bedroom on a pocket money budget would still be touted as possible evidence of US government agencies (including AARO) lying, and of ETI visits to Earth.

That's why provenance and provenience matter!
If you don't know where something came from, it's not evidence for anything but itself. (i.e. "this picture exists", not "the spaceship in this picture exists".
AI art drives this point home more succinctly than Photoshop has done.

 

[MonkeeSage]

If we take this guy


And flip the image horizontally


He somewhat matches this soldier model from the same kit as the original image


Composite


It's not exact, the left arm is different and hard to tell if the feet match cause of the terrible quality, but I think it's close enough to be a potential candidate.

 

[FatPhil]

He somewhat matches this soldier model from the same kit as the original image

So the guy who wasn't being used in the other diorama? No point wasting him if you've bought the whole box.

And regarding it not being an exact match, the arms are separate from the body, there are several to chose from, and are glued together at an angle of the builder's choice.

 

[PublicStranger]

Further enhancement. Instinct is telling me this is a female by the shape of the figurine. Also could this be a necklace or something attached to the clothing?


Edit: A candidate below maybe.

 

[Domzh]

i believe the image quality is way to worse to do these kind of analysis reliably

theres also enough evidence to conclude its another model, coming from a source who already tried to sell (literally) a photograph of a ufo model