Yep but at least one gave a complaint which was found to be urgent and credible by the IGIC.
AARO's Historical UAP Report - Volume 1
- Thread starter Mick West
- Start date
Mauro
Senior Member
Everybody would like that! But I wouldn't expect classified informations to be revealed in a report meant for general public.
I'm not sure if this is true, but I've read the report is an unclassified version, so there should be a classified version where, I guess, more informations are shown:
https://www.twz.com/air/dod-to-depl...-collect-intel-on-unidentified-flying-objects
On a side note, it looks to me this report is getting very little traction in the media, contrary to what happens to any other piece of UFO-related news. I think it's really bad when sensationalism trumps truth.
Mendel
Senior Member.
That's an oversimplification.
First, "the government" doesn't exist. Any government, especially in a non-totalitarian state, is an agglomeration of diverse bodies, agencies, and people. David Grusch was "the government" at one point, and he didn't know what was going on. Government investigating itself is absolutely normal (that's why the Inspectors General exist), and it's supposed to cut through the "the left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing" mess that comes with such huge organisations.
David Grusch's narrative was that there some secret programs, kept from most of the rest of government, that dealt with these UFO contacts—an elite cabal, if you will. AARO investigated that, and it's bunk. As a conspiracy theorist, you can no longer propose a small, bijou conspiracy made up of a small number of people—it has to be a big thing, but still kept secret for decades, which is much less plausible.
AARO also documented officially @sgreenstreet 's (and others) findings about AAWSAP and AATIP—that these programs were effectively run by a small number of people in a conspiratorial manner using funds that were kept from congressional oversight. I bet that nobody in Congress (except for Harry Reid, and maybe Lieberman) knew that Congress was paying for werewolf hunting on Skinwalker Ranch. AARO also documented that the people behind behind this operation, and their friends, are behind the current push to get Congress to waste more money on that kind of research "for safe aerospace".
AARO has documented who the people are that spread misinformation, and that some of this group has a history of grift. There is evidence for that, and Congress should no longer listen to those people—and neither should anyone else. (Unfortunately, some people love liars if the lies please them.)
So they declassify some documents, you say "obviously they faked it", back to square one?
I don't think there's anything that could convince you, when the publicly available debunk of the actual evidence did not.
Look:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/phoenix-lights.11938/#post-311609
Audio transcript: This is a loop which repeats this disappearing sequence over and over again and the one thing that we see here which is striking is that at no point the lights disappear above the ridge of the mountain and at no point the lights descend below the ridge of the mountain. The disappearance of the light coincides precisely with the point in time when the light is exactly at the top of the mountain and that happens not with one light, not with two lights but with all the lights that we see on the videotape therefore the only conclusion we have is that those lights are behind the mountains, not in front of the mountains
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Mendel
Senior Member.
Nope.
The AARO report says that there are no "secret black projects" related to UFOs (any more). There could still be others.
I don't remember any member of Congress confirming that such a project exists, could you cite a source on that?
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Mendel
Senior Member.
Regarding Grusch's curtailing of access.
Grusch has never published the ICIG response to his complaint.
Could you point me towards the verified data in this report.
A lot of us here are scientists so we should expect better.
Mendel
Senior Member.
What data, specifically, would you expect to exist?
What data, specifically, would you expect to exist?
Are you joking? They describe material analysis. Where is the data?
Eburacum
Senior Member.
I find it difficult to believe that anyone is in doubt about the Phoenix lights after all this time. The answer is even given in Wiki.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Lights#Explanations
Are you calling them a 'lair'?
2pint
Member
At least 1 bit of data wouldn’t go a miss! I’m struggling to see any?
PublicStranger
Active Member
The report wasn't meant to be a scientific academic paper. It was a conclusion on the evidence they had seen or been presented with, the absence of data in the report doesn't mean there was none.
Skalman
Active Member
I don't get why anyone would expect detailed data in this report. It's a summary of their findings after they were ordered by congress to look into everything and provide a summary. It's one part of the government asking another part to do something and report their findings. It is implicit in the relationship and mission of AARO that congress is supposed to trust them. The politicians aren't supposed to be in need of the detailed data and proof-of-work from AARO's investigation. I honestly don't think they could make much sense of it anyways (but that is just my personal bias). If they want more details, they can ask for them. It is of course frustrating for us, but we are not the intended audience, and we don't know how much of the data is classified/sensitive for whatever reason. Not including it can be preferable both from a security perspective as well as for readability.
I also don't understand what the ufologists expected. If the USG or some deep state/shadowy cabal part of it is suppressing knowledge of NHI (a term that they really should have used in the report, since people on reddit are of course seeing this as a way to weasel out of a perjury charge or something, obfuscating the extra-dimensional hypothesis) and has done so successfully since the 40's, why would they stop lying now? The "truth" would never come from any other source than a whistleblower with first-hand knowledge and tangible proof. They can subpoena everyone they suspect to be involved in these programs and it wouldn't change a thing, because of course will they say there's nothing to it. It's amazing to me that the same people who thinks that MJ-12 is real also to a large extent seem to think that the people involved in the cover-up wouldn't dare to lie under oath?
Grush, Elizondo and the rest of them have been claiming for over a year now that there are people with first-hand knowledge out there who are supposed to disclose it all anyday now, soon, honest, it's coming! Grusch will have time to rewrite his coming op-ed to refute this report. Elizondo and the rest of the Invisible College could reveal all that amazing evidence they are constantly hinting at. But I don't think it will change anything, because I think that the navy UAP videos were the best evidence they had and apart from that, all they have is oral accounts, most of them second or third hand. Now they also have to deal with the fact that AARO has stated on public record that a lot of those accounts are sourced from themselves in an ourobouros of rumours and claims and that the only project related to UAP's that was misleading congress was AASWAP/AATIP, which they were in charge of.
I think they should be thankful that AARO is taking the whole confidentiality thing seriously, because I imagine it would be hard to get anywhere near a respectable media publication or congressional hearing again if you were outed as a conspiracy theorist that had spent millions of taxpayer dollars ghosthunting and then, after being shut down because of, well, everything you claim being completely unfounded and you not having anything substantial to show for it, and then tried to get even more funding for it and when that failed, used your own failed proposal as the basis for claims of a secret UAP program. It is embarassing enough as it is without their names actually being in the report.
Well, the ball is in their court now. If they have anything more than hearsay to offer, now should be the time to do it.
I also don't understand what the ufologists expected. If the USG or some deep state/shadowy cabal part of it is suppressing knowledge of NHI (a term that they really should have used in the report, since people on reddit are of course seeing this as a way to weasel out of a perjury charge or something, obfuscating the extra-dimensional hypothesis) and has done so successfully since the 40's, why would they stop lying now? The "truth" would never come from any other source than a whistleblower with first-hand knowledge and tangible proof. They can subpoena everyone they suspect to be involved in these programs and it wouldn't change a thing, because of course will they say there's nothing to it. It's amazing to me that the same people who thinks that MJ-12 is real also to a large extent seem to think that the people involved in the cover-up wouldn't dare to lie under oath?
Grush, Elizondo and the rest of them have been claiming for over a year now that there are people with first-hand knowledge out there who are supposed to disclose it all anyday now, soon, honest, it's coming! Grusch will have time to rewrite his coming op-ed to refute this report. Elizondo and the rest of the Invisible College could reveal all that amazing evidence they are constantly hinting at. But I don't think it will change anything, because I think that the navy UAP videos were the best evidence they had and apart from that, all they have is oral accounts, most of them second or third hand. Now they also have to deal with the fact that AARO has stated on public record that a lot of those accounts are sourced from themselves in an ourobouros of rumours and claims and that the only project related to UAP's that was misleading congress was AASWAP/AATIP, which they were in charge of.
I think they should be thankful that AARO is taking the whole confidentiality thing seriously, because I imagine it would be hard to get anywhere near a respectable media publication or congressional hearing again if you were outed as a conspiracy theorist that had spent millions of taxpayer dollars ghosthunting and then, after being shut down because of, well, everything you claim being completely unfounded and you not having anything substantial to show for it, and then tried to get even more funding for it and when that failed, used your own failed proposal as the basis for claims of a secret UAP program. It is embarassing enough as it is without their names actually being in the report.
Well, the ball is in their court now. If they have anything more than hearsay to offer, now should be the time to do it.
Mendel
Senior Member.
In the AARO case files. They're unpublished and possibly classified. I hope the usual suspects use the report's footnotes to FOIA as much as they can.
pp.32/33:
Footnotes (in full):
OK.......
Do you not see the problem with the last sentence?
Put it this way. I don't accept conclusions without data.
That's ridiculous to think that spectroscopy of materials would be confidential.In the AARO case files. They're unpublished and possibly classified. I hope the usual suspects use the report's footnotes to FOIA as much as they can.
pp.32/33:
Footnotes (in full):
Why would it be? Especially if it's ordinary material.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Nobody thinks that. And nobody claimed it's confidential.
But I hope you can see why a report of this scope differs from the case file you'd like to see.
The point here is that the USG did not retrieve the material, it came from the ufologists with unclear provenance. It can be replicated with current techniques, and similar material is used by the USAF. All of that is in the case file as well.
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Mendel
Senior Member.
p.11
Volume 1 took 4 months after the cutoff date to be published.
SEC. 1683. ESTABLISHMENT OF ALL-DOMAIN ANOMALY RESOLUTION OFFICE.
[...]
(j) Historical Record Report.--
(1) Report required.--(A) In general.--Not later than 540 days after the date of the enactment of the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2023, the Director of the Office shall submit to the congressional defense committees, the congressional intelligence committees, and congressional leadership a written report detailing the historical record of the United States Government relating to unidentified anomalous phenomena, including--(i) the records and documents of the intelligence community;(ii) oral history interviews;(iii) open source analysis;(iv) interviews of current and former Government officials;(v) classified and unclassified national archives including any records any third party obtained pursuant to section 552 of title 5, United States Code; and(vi) such other relevant historical sources as the Director of the Office considers appropriate.(B) Other requirements.--The report submitted under subparagraph (A) shall--(i) focus on the period beginning on January 1, 1945, and ending on the date on which the Director of the Office completes activities under this subsection; and(ii) include a compilation and itemization of the key historical record of the involvement of the intelligence community with unidentified anomalous phenomena, including--(I) any program or activity that was protected by restricted access that has not been explicitly and clearly reported to Congress;(II) successful or unsuccessful efforts to identify and track unidentified anomalous phenomena; and(III) any efforts to obfuscate, manipulate public opinion, hide, or otherwise provide incorrect unclassified or classified information about unidentified anomalous phenomena or related activities.
(2) Access to records of the national archives and records administration.--The Archivist of the United States shall make available to the Office such information maintained by the National Archives and Records Administration, including classified information, as the Director of the Office considers necessary to carry out paragraph (1).
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Listen, from one skeptic to another I would warn against accepting word of mouth. I would further warn against accepting arguments of authority e.g. AARO are trusted by Congress.
We could equally come to the same conclusion about Chuck Schumer who said that credible witnesses have come forward in regards to hidden SAPs. Chuck is a member of the Gang of Eight and doubtlessly briefed to a far higher level than anyone at a UFO research organisation.
I think I'll accept neither until more data comes forward.
The skeptic community missed a beat by not campaigning for that legislation.
We could equally come to the same conclusion about Chuck Schumer who said that credible witnesses have come forward in regards to hidden SAPs. Chuck is a member of the Gang of Eight and doubtlessly briefed to a far higher level than anyone at a UFO research organisation.
I think I'll accept neither until more data comes forward.
The skeptic community missed a beat by not campaigning for that legislation.
The report says the data was analysed.
Sorry, but I don't take anyone's word for a scientific conclusion without data. Please also stop saying that government reports do not do that. They do. They include reams of data and the methodology used to collect and analyse it.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Again, could you please cite a source for this? Someone just warned me against accepting word of mouth.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Can you show me a declassified report on something recent that does this?
This report is 63 pages and took 3 months to pass DOPSR.
If it included all of the case files, it'd probably be an unreadable 1000-odd pages, and take a year to pass DOPSR. I hope AARO can add the cases referenced in this report to their public case files as soon as possible.
2pint
Member
This is where I’m kinda with it too. Right now it feels like we’ve got just as much detail / evidence on how they came to their conclusions as we have with how Grusch came to his own conclusions.
Fair enough if this report was never designed to provide said data / evidence but that just makes it a load of hot air to me and pretty pointless.
Is my understanding that volume 2 will be providing what I’m after correct?
Then don't accept the conclusions, that's fine. I advise anyone in this thread to not accept the conclusions of this report if they don't want to, and not push it as if it were a scientific paper if you do accept the conclusions.
We now know what AARO thinks about the matter and can maybe speculate about who they interviewed.
I'm not sure about that, I think the volume 2 will just be providing a similar thing but about information gained from when the first report was released onwards.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Why would you label a first-hand written report as "word of mouth", aka oral communication?
Unlike David Grusch's testimony, this report is not rumors and hearsay, it's based on first-hand testimony and evidence. Its quality is well above much that the UFO community has to offer, even though it lacks the AARO case files that it references.
(Nobody claims AARO is infallible.)
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Ann K
Senior Member.
"Terrestrial material" is not the same as "ordinary material". I can well believe that there are substances under development, especially in the field of aeronautics, that are known only to the developers, and that are, quite frankly, none of our business. As far as AARO is concerned, we are all a bunch of civilians with no security clearances, and they are under no obligation to provide us with technical specs.
Skalman
Active Member
No one is saying that government reports do not include data and methodology. But not all of them do. This one doesn't, for what is to me very obvious reasons: scope, time restraints, intended audience, questions of classified information. One can agree with them or not, but it is in no way surprising.
For me, this report contained two extra interesting tidbits:
1. That the claims of the secret UAP retrieval program might be a failed attempt from the Invisible College/AASWAP people to get one rolling.
2. That Michael Herrera actually has spoken to AARO and that they are actually investigating his claims and have yet to resolve them.
Considering the nature of those claims, that is, in my opinion, quite remarkable. I suspected he was lying about talking with them and would use any denial from AARO as "proof" of a cover-up in the same wheelhouse as Bob Lazar's "missing" university records. Herrera's story fascinates me because of how fantastical it is taken at face value and I'm looking forward to reading AARO's conclusions (if they have any) in vol. 2.
Mendel
Senior Member.
The composition of the material might be unclassified, but the methods (and personnel) used to analyse and replicate it might be classified, and that may make it difficult to declassify the whole case file; but that's what we'd want. So I hope that AARO is going to (or made to) release declassified versions of these case files.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Herrera claims that "his six-man unit saw a hovering octagonal UFO being loaded with weapons by unmarked US forces who threatened them at gunpoint while serving in Indonesia in 2009". Where did you see that referenced in the AARO report? I couldn't find it.
Skalman
Active Member
On p. 29:
An interviewee who is a former U.S. service member said that in 2009, while participating in a humanitarian and security mission in a foreign country, he encountered “U.S. Special Forces” loading containers onto a large extraterrestrial spacecraft.
Ann K
Senior Member.
I was curious enough to search for his name, and got only stuff from such questionable sources as "the Daily Mail" (tabloid) and Reddit. His account continues with claims that he was "threatened" to keep quiet ...and yet, as we have seen in other claims, he has not kept quiet. So far his story is just that, a story.
Mendel
Senior Member.
Thank you!
and that case isn't listed. Footnote 94 is another "AARO case file" as reference.Findings
AARO investigated and reached conclusions on the majority of the claims made in these
narratives. In most cases, AARO was able to locate the companies, people, and programs that
were conveyed to AARO through interviews. AARO will report the results of the unresolved
allegations in Volume II. AARO's findings to date are as follows:
2pint
Member
It’s exactly the same as Grusch’s testimony. “First hand testimony and evidence” - can you link the source to this please?
Skalman
Active Member
Yes, I agree. It is an extremely weird and unbelievable story (and there is a guy on reddit who claims to have been in contact with Herrera and some other people from his unit and claims to have corroborated some of the claims) which is why I find it interesting that AARO is actually investigating it. I don't think that there were some black ops SF squad in a flying saucer, of course, but I hope that the investigation will bring some insight into what is actually behind the claims (grifting? Mental illness? Some weird CIA shit?) and also into how AARO conducts their investigations when they have no objective data to go on, only people to find and interview and stories to corroborate.
deirdre
Senior Member.
i agree with all that this report as we the public have it is hearsay. But i thought Grusch only had second hand testimonies? (or in the case of the guy reporting what his great uncle told him 4th hand testimony).
deirdre
Senior Member.
or U.S troops selling assets to an enemy faction. (human enemy of course)
This may be a bit off topic, but reading this
I can totally see how confusion may have happened, that plane looks sick and "off-world" is one of the words I would use to describe it.
And seeing an image of a F-117 NighthawkAn interviewee105 stated that a former military member, who was also an interviewee, had stated that he had touched an off-world aircraft. AARO contacted and interviewed the former military member106 who denied any knowledge of off-world technology in possession of the USG, a private contractor, or any other foreign or domestic entity. The former military member attested that he could not remember if this encounter with the original interviewee had ever occurred, but opined that if it had happened, the only situation that he might have conveyed was the time when he touched an F-117 Nighthawk stealth fighter at a facility. The former military member signed an MFR attesting to the truthfulness of his account.
I can totally see how confusion may have happened, that plane looks sick and "off-world" is one of the words I would use to describe it.
Mendel
Senior Member.
It's explicitly labeled as "ordinary" in the report.
There are several instances in the case descriptions where AARO followed up interview leads until they either ran into a dead end (on-the-record denial) or identified a source for a misunderstanding.
Grusch was in no position to do that.
JMartJr
Senior Member.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/phoenix-lights.11938/post-311609
The Phoenix lights consisted of two separate sightings, the flares and an earlier triangular formation of lights, which were observed through a telescope by an amateur astronomer as the flew past -- they were seen to be a formation of airplanes which, to those without a telescope, gave the appearance of a single object with multiple lights.
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/phoenix-lights.11938/post-311617
That thread would be a good place for any additional discussion of this incident, I guess. It's relevence to THIS thread was pretty much summed up here:
deirdre
Senior Member.
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