The Ariel School, Zimbabwe UFO sighting - has it ever been debunked?

Maybe consider the degree to which their accounts differ.

We expect witness accounts to sometimes conflict or be inaccurate, but it is clear that the minority of Ariel school children who reported seeing anything unusual reported vastly divergent descriptions, with some commonality between pairs of friends / peers.

Examples, with the children's pictures, in the other Ariel School threads, including
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/ar...ns-through-vegetation-how-to-visualise.12528/

e.g.
n.JPG

Hippies or skinheads? None of the children reported both.
And remember, at least one child claimed the "aliens" were almost within touching distance.
In the 'Ariel Phenomenon' documentary there are several, now adult, witnesses who stick to their stories. We are talking about eyewitnesses here. All these comments about details are a desperate attempt to discretize these people.
 
All these comments about details
Details- like why at least two very different types of aliens are drawn, with no overlap between witnesses- are important.
-And that's out of the 15 reports (out of supposedly, 62) selected by Cynthia Hind and John Mack.

Or details like why no children reported any message from the aliens until interviewed some time later by psychiatrist John Mack, a sincere man who arguably used leading questions and suggestion in his interactions with UFO witnesses.

If we ignore details, we are prone to accept the homogenized but unrepresentative narrative of Hind and Mack- just as many UFO enthusiasts believe Betty and Barney Hill reported being abducted by "Grays". They didn't, and their descriptions differed between them, and they changed over time.
(You very rarely see a UFO blog stating that Barney recounted seeing a smiling red-headed Irishman and a Nazi in shiny black clothes with a scarf next to each other.)

And the context is important; at least one class had a discussion about UFOs earlier that week, and this was followed by the
dramatic fireball of what we now know was a Zenit-2 booster re-entry, seen across much of Zimbabwe, generating UFO reports and getting national press coverage. We know this was a coincidence; the children didn't.

...are a desperate attempt to discretize these people.
Not at all. And please stop trying to make other people's observations or points of view here seem ill-intentioned.

Around the world, people see and experience unusual things all the time, and sometimes these experiences are very important to them. Their accounts are often fascinating in their own right, and perhaps we can learn things by examining them.

We can't tell whether the Ariel School witnesses (and the other, probably greater number of children present, who witnessed nothing out of the ordinary) are recounting what they subjectively believe to be true or not, although an assumption of veracity is a good starting point, just as in other areas of life.
And if they did believe that what they saw was objectively true, there's the problem of if it was.

In another context, I said
There is no reason to doubt Fravor's competency as a pilot at the time of the Tic-Tac sighting, and there's no reason to doubt his honesty. But pilots do misperceive things, just like everyone else does from time to time, and this might apply to Fravor's sighting without impugning his honesty, intelligence or professionalism.
-The same for the Ariel kids; there's no reason to doubt that they were, as a group, anything other than normal, broadly healthy and well-behaved children. Some of them made extraordinary claims which, if true, would be profoundly significant.

It's important to critically examine unusual claims. Even if we can't conclude that we are being visited by aliens, or that ghosts exist as sentient entities, etc., we might learn things about perception, memory, communication or the nature of belief.

Reviewing unusual claims isn't about discrediting people, it's about trying to understand what happened.
 
Reviewing unusual claims isn't about discrediting people, it's about trying to understand what happened.
well.. thats a pretty broad statement. Sometimes it's about discrediting people (ariel though was just children. so i do doubt anyone, even the most ornery of sceptics, would be trying to discredit manipulated children)
 
All these comments about details are a desperate attempt to discretize these people.
Our comments are not desparate, and they're not attempts, and their aim is not to discredit people, but to discredit a narrative that won't stand up to an unbiased look at the evidence.
Ideas that are false should be discredited, don't you agree?
 
By the way, was there not a documentary or film, or something, in the making? Or did I miss something? Sorry for my ignorance.
 
It's no wonder people think about the reality of claimed experiences with no evidence like this when one of the best-selling UFO books of recent years (American Cosmic, D.W. Pasulka) provides support from a position of academic authority, making this strange, and I would argue wrong, definition of a 'debunker' as 'a person who actively discredits people'."

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Good find. I read it as meaning something like "...this is what people in Ufology think debunkers are", though.
I'm a debunker. I'm a person who doesnt believe in the UFO phenomenon and actively discredits people who claim to have witnessed something.

It's not my fault though if my debunks discredit them, its just a by-product of the debunk.

In some rare cases, like the Warrens (they get under my skin) i am open to the phenomenon and my debunks still produce the by-product of discrediting them.

Unless she means i go out stalking individual UFO believers in order to find every claim they ever made and debunk every one. I call them Debunker trolls (and they do exist). I debunker trolled/stalked Wolfgang Halbig but he was a vile man saying vile things about 1st graders so i don't care what his cult calls me.
 
But (and i'm guessing here) you don't seek to activly discredit the person, just interrogate the evidence for the claim? The discrediting of people just kind flows from that especially if they continue to make the debunked claim (as so many do). I think it's this distinction which Pasulka doesn't seem hip to. She seems to be saying that believing in the phenomenon is sufficient to be discredited.
 
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